2016 Silverado 3500 - Ike Gauntlet Pull

Bigfoot affair wrote:

Cute video, using exhaust to snuff out the combustion process. Wouldn't you just shut fuel off the to cylinders? LOL! Obviously a video made to entertain people like you.

Inside look at the 6.7 Scorpion


I'll save you the trouble of reading the whole article, here is the paragraph that explains the reasons behind the upgraded turbo charger... You guessed it, better exhaust braking performance.

With the improvements to the turbocharger and exhaust, Ford is now able to increase engine braking. The previous generation had some but it was rather limited due to the concern of overspinning the turbocharger.

HUH!?! We were talking about how the 2011-14 Powerstrokes didn't have an exhaust brake and I instead had an engine brake and you post an article about a 2015 Powerstroke when they changed the turbo to add an exhaust brake. That makes no sense. Also, the video posted was directly from Ford showing how their in engine brake in their 2011-2014 Powerstrokes (you know, the ones we were talking about) worked while yor atticle is about the new 2015 Powerstroke (the one we weren't talking about) so......

ShinerBock wrote:

Bigfoot affair wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Yes the pre 2015 6.7 Powerstroke do have exhaust braking (your wrong), but is not as effective as the other brands.

ShinerBock wrote:

Wrong! The 2011-2014 Powerstrokes did not have an exhaust brake regardless if Ford wants to call it an exhaust brake "function". They had an engine brake(since it worked inside the engine) that manipulated the valves to force exhaust gases into the air intake stroke to starve the combustion process. There is a difference between an exhaust brake and engine brake, and what Ford had was NOT an exhaust brake which is a restriction in the exhaust outside the engine to cause back pressure which has greater stopping force than the engine braking that Ford used.



What?? Now I really know you don't have a clue. I am not a Ford guy and I know that this is not the case with the 2011-14 6.7 Scorpion. They used the vg's in the turbo just like Ram and GM does, it just wasn't effective and one of the reasons they updated the turbo on the 15's and up.

Really? I don't have a clue? So does this video mean Ford does not have a clue about their own engine as well?


Fords 6.7L exhaust brake "function"

Bigfoot affair wrote:
Give it a rest already. Who cares (other than you) that the Ram needed a few more taps of the brake to slow down.

Apparently the OP since he mentions it in the very first post and everyone else that was talking about it before I even posted here so......

Cute video, using exhaust to snuff out the combustion process. Wouldn't you just shut fuel off the to cylinders? LOL! Obviously a video made to entertain people like you.

Inside look at the 6.7 Scorpion


I'll save you the trouble of reading the whole article, here is the paragraph that explains the reasons behind the upgraded turbo charger... You guessed it, better exhaust braking performance.

With the improvements to the turbocharger and exhaust, Ford is now able to increase engine braking. The previous generation had some but it was rather limited due to the concern of overspinning the turbocharger.

transamz9 wrote:

Yes it will downshift if you let off the accelerator and not touch the brake.

Yes, that is what I have been saying. The only way it will downshift in full mode is if you apply the brakes or the EB slows you down enough to force a downshift which is more aggressive(and sooner) in tow/haul mode. Personally I like using full mode and shifting manually most of the time, but I use auto mode a lot when towing in the Texas Hill Country where it is a lot of up and down driving over hills. Manually shifting there gets kind of tiresome after a while and many times using full mode will slow your momentum down too much that you have to really get on it coming up the next hill.

ShinerBock wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

Sorry bud but you are wrong on this. It will downshift very aggressively In TH mode (RPM limited) with the exhaust brake in full on mode when a couple things are met. One the truck has a predetermined deceleration rate and you can't be slowing down any faster than that rate. The other is you HAVE to put your foot on the brake pedal (don't have to apply brakes just light your brake lights) for the truck to know that you want to slow down. It will then begin to downshift and apply the amount of exhaust brake needed to decelerate at the programmed rate that is in the computer. I have seen my exhaust brake gauge as high as 150 braking hp. When you have it in auto mode it will do what ever it needs to do to hold a curtain speed but once it slows to that speed it will adjust to keep to that speed instead of like the full on mode that will continue to slow the truck until around 20 mph.

What you stated is basically what I stated in saying that in order for Ram's full mode to downshift the truck has to be slowing down either through brake touches or the EB slowing the truck down enough to require the transmission to downshift to keep from stalling. It will not downshift if the truck is gaining speed and you are not touching the brakes so you have to touch the brakes for full mode to become stronger. This mode is not ideal for a test like the Ike that scored depending on brake touches.

Auto mode on the other hand will downshift to gain intensity if you are gaining speed without needing to touch the brakes or any input from the driver. Basically auto mode is the ideal setting to be in for a brake touch tests like the TFL test since it does not require brake touches or slowing down to gain intensity like full mode does.

Essentially, from what I have been reading, Ram's full mode is like Chevy's EB without cruise control set where it just turns on and of gaining intensity with brake touches. Ram's auto mode is like Chevy's EB with the cruise control on where it will vary the shifting and intensity on its own to keep you at speed. The only difference with Ram's auto mode and Chevy's EB set in cruise is that you don't have to have the cruise control set in the Ram in order for it to know what speed you want to stay at. The Ram's auto mode will notice what speed you last let off the accelerator and will try to keep you there without having cruise control set.

Yes it will downshift if you let off the accelerator and not touch the brake. It just does it more aggressively when you touch the brake pedal. It gives you more control that way instead of like on the Chevy where it's just full on or full off. To be honest, I don't run my truck in the Auto brake mode because I like being in control of the truck 100% of the time while towing. If I'm descending a grade I just lift my foot off the accelerator and the exhaust brake comes on. If I want to slow more or faster I just lay my foot on the brake pedal with no brakes applied. If that's not enough then I will apply brakes. The thing about the auto mode is that the brake don't work when you have to stop. It only works to assist in holding speed. The full mode will do the same thing and more like helping you stop there just has to be a little understanding of how it works and a little bit of driver input.;)

transamz9 wrote:

Sorry bud but you are wrong on this. It will downshift very aggressively In TH mode (RPM limited) with the exhaust brake in full on mode when a couple things are met. One the truck has a predetermined deceleration rate and you can't be slowing down any faster than that rate. The other is you HAVE to put your foot on the brake pedal (don't have to apply brakes just light your brake lights) for the truck to know that you want to slow down. It will then begin to downshift and apply the amount of exhaust brake needed to decelerate at the programmed rate that is in the computer. I have seen my exhaust brake gauge as high as 150 braking hp. When you have it in auto mode it will do what ever it needs to do to hold a curtain speed but once it slows to that speed it will adjust to keep to that speed instead of like the full on mode that will continue to slow the truck until around 20 mph.

What you stated is basically what I stated in saying that in order for Ram's full mode to downshift the truck has to be slowing down either through brake touches or the EB slowing the truck down enough to require the transmission to downshift to keep from stalling. It will not downshift if the truck is gaining speed and you are not touching the brakes so you have to touch the brakes for full mode to become stronger. This mode is not ideal for a test like the Ike that scored depending on brake touches.

Auto mode on the other hand will downshift to gain intensity if you are gaining speed without needing to touch the brakes or any input from the driver. Basically auto mode is the ideal setting to be in for a brake touch tests like the TFL test since it does not require brake touches or slowing down to gain intensity like full mode does.

Essentially, from what I have been reading, Ram's full mode is like Chevy's EB without cruise control set where it just turns on and of gaining intensity with brake touches. Ram's auto mode is like Chevy's EB with the cruise control on where it will vary the shifting and intensity on its own to keep you at speed. The only difference with Ram's auto mode and Chevy's EB set in cruise is that you don't have to have the cruise control set in the Ram in order for it to know what speed you want to stay at. The Ram's auto mode will notice what speed you last let off the accelerator and will try to keep you there without having cruise control set.

brulaz wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

...
Sorry bud but you are wrong on this. It will downshift very aggressively In TH mode (RPM limited) with the exhaust brake in full on mode when a couple things are met. One the truck has a predetermined deceleration rate and you can't be slowing down any faster than that rate. The other is you HAVE to put your foot on the brake pedal (don't have to apply brakes just light your brake lights) for the truck to know that you want to slow down. It will then begin to downshift and apply the amount of exhaust brake needed to decelerate at the programmed rate that is in the computer. I have seen my exhaust brake gauge as high as 150 braking hp. When you have it in auto mode it will do what ever it needs to do to hold a curtain speed but once it slows to that speed it will adjust to keep to that speed instead of like the full on mode that will continue to slow the truck until around 20 mph.

I agree with you that FLT did not get the full effect of the Ram's exhaust just because of the way they conduct their test. They consider brake touches as a deduct even though you don't have to apply brake pressure you just have to touch the pedal for it to work.

Thanks for that. I was wondering how RAM's two-stage EB, as described by ShinerB, interacts with tow/haul. I guess it also interacts with Cruise Control as well to reduce speed downhill?

Sorry, I can't give you exact on the Cruise Control interaction because I don't use my cruise when I'm towing. I would believe it will interact with the exhaust brake on Auto mode just because the auto mode is programmed as a speed assist. Full on mode is a brake assist so it senses how fast the truck is slowing down and senses input from the driver as to how fast he/she wants to slow down buy applied brake pedal pressure.

transamz9 wrote:

...
Sorry bud but you are wrong on this. It will downshift very aggressively In TH mode (RPM limited) with the exhaust brake in full on mode when a couple things are met. One the truck has a predetermined deceleration rate and you can't be slowing down any faster than that rate. The other is you HAVE to put your foot on the brake pedal (don't have to apply brakes just light your brake lights) for the truck to know that you want to slow down. It will then begin to downshift and apply the amount of exhaust brake needed to decelerate at the programmed rate that is in the computer. I have seen my exhaust brake gauge as high as 150 braking hp. When you have it in auto mode it will do what ever it needs to do to hold a curtain speed but once it slows to that speed it will adjust to keep to that speed instead of like the full on mode that will continue to slow the truck until around 20 mph.

I agree with you that FLT did not get the full effect of the Ram's exhaust just because of the way they conduct their test. They consider brake touches as a deduct even though you don't have to apply brake pressure you just have to touch the pedal for it to work.

Thanks for that. I was wondering how RAM's two-stage EB, as described by ShinerB, interacts with tow/haul. I guess it also interacts with Cruise Control as well to reduce speed downhill?

ShinerBock wrote:

Not exactly, as I said before the EB in full brake mode will not downshift to keep speed like auto mode will in certain situations. Full mode will downshift as you gradually slow down (as it naturally does without the EB)if the exhaust brake is strong enough to slow the truck down in the gear it is in. If it is not strong enough to slow the truck down in the gear it is in then it will NOT downshift to become stronger like auto mode will.

For example, say you were coming down the Ike towing 20k at 60 mph as the truck weight and grade was overpowering the EB in 6th gear and you start to gain speed. The exhaust brake in full mode will not downshift to become stronger when you are gaining speed and you have to apply the brakes in order to slow down in these scenarios where the force of the weight and grade is stronger than the force of the EB in high gears.

In auto mode it is a different story. If it is set at 60 mph and you start to gain speed, the EB in auto mode will automatically drop down a gear or two (since the higher the rpm the stronger the exhaust brake is) to keep you from gaining speed helping you slow down without touching the brakes.

This is only in certain extreme situations like the Ike where the load and grade is more powerful than the exhaust brake is in 6th or even 5th. About 99.9% of the time (or 100% of the time for most people who don't live by mountains) the full mode EB in 6th gear is strong enough to slow you down or at least keep speed without the need of a downshift like you say you usually experience.

Sorry bud but you are wrong on this. It will downshift very aggressively In TH mode (RPM limited) with the exhaust brake in full on mode when a couple things are met. One the truck has a predetermined deceleration rate and you can't be slowing down any faster than that rate. The other is you HAVE to put your foot on the brake pedal (don't have to apply brakes just light your brake lights) for the truck to know that you want to slow down. It will then begin to downshift and apply the amount of exhaust brake needed to decelerate at the programmed rate that is in the computer. I have seen my exhaust brake gauge as high as 150 braking hp. When you have it in auto mode it will do what ever it needs to do to hold a curtain speed but once it slows to that speed it will adjust to keep to that speed instead of like the full on mode that will continue to slow the truck until around 20 mph.

I agree with you that FLT did not get the full effect of the Ram's exhaust just because of the way they conduct their test. They consider brake touches as a deduct even though you don't have to apply brake pressure you just have to touch the pedal for it to work.

Bigfoot affair wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Yes the pre 2015 6.7 Powerstroke do have exhaust braking (your wrong), but is not as effective as the other brands.

ShinerBock wrote:

Wrong! The 2011-2014 Powerstrokes did not have an exhaust brake regardless if Ford wants to call it an exhaust brake "function". They had an engine brake(since it worked inside the engine) that manipulated the valves to force exhaust gases into the air intake stroke to starve the combustion process. There is a difference between an exhaust brake and engine brake, and what Ford had was NOT an exhaust brake which is a restriction in the exhaust outside the engine to cause back pressure which has greater stopping force than the engine braking that Ford used.



What?? Now I really know you don't have a clue. I am not a Ford guy and I know that this is not the case with the 2011-14 6.7 Scorpion. They used the vg's in the turbo just like Ram and GM does, it just wasn't effective and one of the reasons they updated the turbo on the 15's and up.

Really? I don't have a clue? So does this video mean Ford does not have a clue about their own engine as well?


Fords 6.7L exhaust brake "function"

Bigfoot affair wrote:
Give it a rest already. Who cares (other than you) that the Ram needed a few more taps of the brake to slow down.

Apparently the OP since he mentions it in the very first post and everyone else that was talking about it before I even posted here so......

Even the 6.0 PSD had exhaust braking through the VGT (only in tow/haul mode). The 6.4 PSD used a dual turbo setup which I believe only used fixed vanes and lost exhaust braking. The 6.7 PSD returned to a VGT and got exhaust braking back. Since its introduction the turbo tuning and size has changed, but all Scorpions have exhaust braking through the VGT.