2016 Silverado 3500 - Ike Gauntlet Pull

CumminsDriver wrote:
What nobody is comparing here, is that the Duramax and 2015 + Powerstroke engines are allowed by the engine computer to rev much higher during exhaust braking than the Cummins ECM allows. The Cummins will upshift at 3200 to 3300 rpms during exhaust braking if the exhaust brake will not hold the load. The Duramax and 2015+ Powerstroke will be allowed to rev close to or over 4000 rpms for exhaust braking, which may put these trucks in a lower gear than than the Ram. Watch the video again of the 2016 Duramax test and it clearly shows the engine at 3500+ rpms when exhaust braking. I have owned a Ram/Cummins truck and now own the Chevy/Duramax combo. Under 3000 rpms the Cummins exhaust brake works just as well if not better than my current truck. Over 3000 rpm's and that is where the extra pumping of the Duramax engine really makes a difference.

Just my experience with owning both brands of trucks.

Rich

Okay I understand what you're saying, but what is the relevance of what RPM the redine is at? Sure the Cummins has a lower redline but at the end of the day that's a design limitation of the engine and so, unlike using the wrong EB setting, not an error on the tester's part.

Optimal setting or not I suspect Mr Truck had done the best the Ram was capable of.

At 60 mph which is what they decided to go down the hill (I suspect the speed limit) The Ram will be turning about 2600 rpm in 4th gear. It appears from what I saw in the video 4th gear was the gear used when the truck was going 60 mph.

Had Mr Truck dropped a gear as everyone thinks he should have that would bring the rpms up to about 3483. I believe that is well beyond red line for the 6.7 Cummins. I suspect with the computers used in the engines and transmissions the Ram will not allow 3rd gear operation at 60 mph.

Perhaps Cummins12V98 can verify what rpm the Ram would turn in 4th gear at 60 mph. There is a possibility my math is wrong.

What nobody is comparing here, is that the Duramax and 2015 + Powerstroke engines are allowed by the engine computer to rev much higher during exhaust braking than the Cummins ECM allows. The Cummins will upshift at 3200 to 3300 rpms during exhaust braking if the exhaust brake will not hold the load. The Duramax and 2015+ Powerstroke will be allowed to rev close to or over 4000 rpms for exhaust braking, which may put these trucks in a lower gear than than the Ram. Watch the video again of the 2016 Duramax test and it clearly shows the engine at 3500+ rpms when exhaust braking. I have owned a Ram/Cummins truck and now own the Chevy/Duramax combo. Under 3000 rpms the Cummins exhaust brake works just as well if not better than my current truck. Over 3000 rpm's and that is where the extra pumping of the Duramax engine really makes a difference.

Just my experience with owning both brands of trucks.

Rich

ShinerBock wrote:

ksss wrote:
They are trying to take as much subjectivity out of the test as possible. That is why they don't put it in the manual shifting option. They want to make the test as fair and duplicatable as possible. It may not be in reality the manner in which the truck operates optimally but its is the same in all the trucks. Put it in TH, and go down the hill. The fewer touches the better in their scoring system. The GM brake is clearly stronger, although having a couple different modes like on the Ram would be nice. Coming down the passes out here at full GVW, I have to hit the gas at times. The power of the engine brake is incredible. What I find most interesting is that with considerably less engine hp and torque the Duramax continues to do very well. I look forward to the 30K plus tow capacity version which I hope will be out in 2017.

Yes, but as I stated they put the truck in the wrong exhaust brake mode. Pressing the exhaust brake button one more time would have put it in auto mode which is the mode you want if you want the truck to keep a certain speed and not mess with any manual shifting. However they had it in full mode which is the mode that may require you to downshift gears manually in order for the exhaust brake to be stronger. Ram's auto mode is the same as Chevy's standard mode that will automatically downshift on its own to make the exhaust brake stronger if the truck starts going over the desired speed.

If the Ram was not set to it's optimal setting then the test is not valid for the down hill brake test. Having said that GM did perform a similar test and they demonstrated they had the best exhaust brake, but who knows if they had the competition's settings at the optimal setting.

rjstractor wrote:


You've lost me somewhere. All 3 engines are virtually the same displacement. The Cummins has larger cylinders but fewer, so in theory it should wash, right?

They are close. The short stroke 6.6L Duramax is a 403ci, the 6.7L Powerstroke is a 406ci, and the 6.7L Cummins is a 408ci. It is not about number of cylinders, but actual displacement of all the cylinders together.

ksss wrote:
They are trying to take as much subjectivity out of the test as possible. That is why they don't put it in the manual shifting option. They want to make the test as fair and duplicatable as possible. It may not be in reality the manner in which the truck operates optimally but its is the same in all the trucks. Put it in TH, and go down the hill. The fewer touches the better in their scoring system. The GM brake is clearly stronger, although having a couple different modes like on the Ram would be nice. Coming down the passes out here at full GVW, I have to hit the gas at times. The power of the engine brake is incredible. What I find most interesting is that with considerably less engine hp and torque the Duramax continues to do very well. I look forward to the 30K plus tow capacity version which I hope will be out in 2017.

Yes, but as I stated they put the truck in the wrong exhaust brake mode. Pressing the exhaust brake button one more time would have put it in auto mode which is the mode you want if you want the truck to keep a certain speed and not mess with any manual shifting. However they had it in full mode which is the mode that may require you to downshift gears manually in order for the exhaust brake to be stronger. Ram's auto mode is the same as Chevy's standard mode that will automatically downshift on its own to make the exhaust brake stronger if the truck starts going over the desired speed.

They are trying to take as much subjectivity out of the test as possible. That is why they don't put it in the manual shifting option. They want to make the test as fair and duplicatable as possible. It may not be in reality the manner in which the truck operates optimally but its is the same in all the trucks. Put it in TH, and go down the hill. The fewer touches the better in their scoring system. The GM brake is clearly stronger, although having a couple different modes like on the Ram would be nice. Coming down the passes out here at full GVW, I have to hit the gas at times. The power of the engine brake is incredible. What I find most interesting is that with considerably less engine hp and torque the Duramax continues to do very well. I look forward to the 30K plus tow capacity version which I hope will be out in 2017.

FishOnOne wrote:
TFL's method of testing really demonstrates how well these trucks drivetrains are engineered by the manufacturer.

Not really if you don't use the devices as the manufacturers intended. With these guys labeling themselves as a "truck site" then they should learn a bit more about the trucks they are reviewing and use the features of the trucks accordingly.

For example, what if they did an off road test between a Chevy HD Z71 with an G80 auto locker versus a Ford SD Fx4 with a selectable locker. In that test both trucks get stuck, but only the Z71 got out due to not having to touch anything with its auto locker while the Fx4 remained stuck because they did know to pull the 4x4 knob to engage the e-locker. The Fx4 could have easily have gotten out if they knew to engage the locker, but they didn't know enough to engage it. Now whose fault is that, the truck or the reviewer?

Same thing goes for the Ram test where only one more press of the EB button would have put them in the proper auto mode for keeping speeds down hills like the owners manual states yet they failed to do it. Whose fault is that, the truck or the reviewer?

dodge guy wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
TFL's method of testing really demonstrates how well these trucks drivetrains are engineered by the manufacturer.

Yes, by inexperienced operators!

I believe Mr. Truck is a experienced operator and that's why he set's up the load and drives the truck. Again TFL has made a choice to let the engineering in the truck speak for itself in terms of performance and it's clear the Chevy performs the best in this test.

FishOnOne wrote:
TFL's method of testing really demonstrates how well these trucks drivetrains are engineered by the manufacturer.

Yes, by inexperienced operators!