2016 Silverado 3500 - Ike Gauntlet Pull

FishOnOne wrote:
Yes the pre 2015 6.7 Powerstroke do have exhaust braking (your wrong), but is not as effective as the other brands.

ShinerBock wrote:

Wrong! The 2011-2014 Powerstrokes did not have an exhaust brake regardless if Ford wants to call it an exhaust brake "function". They had an engine brake(since it worked inside the engine) that manipulated the valves to force exhaust gases into the air intake stroke to starve the combustion process. There is a difference between an exhaust brake and engine brake, and what Ford had was NOT an exhaust brake which is a restriction in the exhaust outside the engine to cause back pressure which has greater stopping force than the engine braking that Ford used.



What?? Now I really know you don't have a clue. I am not a Ford guy and I know that this is not the case with the 2011-14 6.7 Scorpion. They used the vg's in the turbo just like Ram and GM does, it just wasn't effective and one of the reasons they updated the turbo on the 15's and up.

Give it a rest already. Who cares (other than you) that the Ram needed a few more taps of the brake to slow down. If you like your truck then so be it, carry on with life... Nobody likes a sore looser.

FishOnOne wrote:
If this video sponsored by Chevy was using the Ram's settings in a unfair manner, I would expect Ram to perform their own test to show otherwise, but they didn't.

So by saying that, does that mean Ford is wrong since they did not come out and explain the Ram and Chevy videos of the frame twisting and that it had nothing to do with the actual strength of the frame like GM and Ram insinuated? Ford could have came out with their own test, but they didn't. What does that mean?

FishOnOne wrote:
Yes the pre 2015 6.7 Powerstroke do have exhaust braking (your wrong), but is not as effective as the other brands.

Wrong! The 2011-2014 Powerstrokes did not have an exhaust brake regardless if Ford wants to call it an exhaust brake "function". They had an engine brake(since it worked inside the engine) that manipulated the valves to force exhaust gases into the air intake stroke to starve the combustion process. There is a difference between an exhaust brake and engine brake, and what Ford had was NOT an exhaust brake which is a restriction in the exhaust outside the engine to cause back pressure which has greater stopping force than the engine braking that Ford used.

FishOnOne wrote:
I posted this older video that demonstrated the Chevy's exhaust braking performance being better than Ram since you were claiming foul play with the first video which may have been legitimate. The point is there has been two separate tests by different people that show the same results that doesn't support your position (perhaps your wrong again).

So you are the expert in Ram's exhaust brake? Really? Tell me how many miles have you towed and used Ram's exhaust brake? How many miles have you used both modes of Ram's exhaust brake to which mode works best in certain scenarios? If you actually towed with one then you would know that the trucks were in full brake mode that does provide that much braking. It is clearly seen by the icon in the first video and you couldn't even hear the exhaust brake(which you would have especially if it downshifted) in the second video. As I said before, go drive a Ram with 10k behind it while using the auto mode and you will know right then and there that the Ram in the GM promotional video was NOT in auto mode. Do you want me to drive up to Houston with my trailer one of these weekends so you can see for yourself?

FishOnOne wrote:
Your other comments is not worth my time to even respond to. :R

Yeah you won't comment on it because you know it is true. Come on guy, even a blind man can see that you go out of your way in many of your posts just to get your jabs in on Cummins or Rams. To be fair, I don't like certain Ram guys here (they know who they are) who constantly go out of their way to piss on Ford's either.

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Here's the video I was referring to that demonstrates Chevy's exhaust brake as being the best performer. Also noteworthy I think the Ford and Ram are '14 models. We do know Fords exhaust brake capability for the '15 model has been improved while the Ram's exhaust brake capability has been the same since '13.

Link

Yeah, that is kind of irrelevant since you don't know which mode the truck was in. From my experience of using Ram's auto mode and exhaust brake in general, it would have no problems keeping the speed with just 10k lbs on that hill IF it was in auto mode or in full mode and you manually downshifted. It is clear by how fast the truck was gaining speed that it was in full mode and in 6th gear which is when the exhaust brake is at its weakest. You can also clearly hear the GM truck they are in in higher rpms which means it had downshifted to make its exhaust brake stronger in order to hold speed.

Fish, I know you are just using this as an opportunity to go out of your way to piss on Cummins like you normally do in these forums, but if you honestly think that a pre-2015 Powerstroke without an exhaust brake and only using grade braking can hold speed better than a Cummins with an an exhaust brake in auto mode that is downshifting to hold speed as well then you are on crack my friend. The only way a pre-2015 Powerstroke that does not have an exhaust brake can outperform a Cummins with an exhaust brake in that test is if the Powerstoke was downshifting and using grade braking to slow the truck down while the Cummins was in full mode and stayed in 6th the whole way down which looks to be the case. If it was in auto mode or if you manually downshifted in full mode, then that Cummins could have slowed down to a crawl without touching the brakes with just 10k behind it if you wanted it to.

I know that since your truck is a pre-2015 without an exhaust brake that you are not that familiar with towing with an EB, but when you do get your a new SD with an exhaust brake or go out and actually use a Ram's exhaust brake(properly) towing 10k lbs down a hill then you will see how ludicrous that video actually is.

Shiner,
I have to disagree with you...

If this video sponsored by Chevy was using the Ram's settings in a unfair manner, I would expect Ram to perform their own test to show otherwise, but they didn't.

Yes the pre 2015 6.7 Powerstroke do have exhaust braking (your wrong), but is not as effective as the other brands.

I posted this older video that demonstrated the Chevy's exhaust braking performance being better than Ram since you were claiming foul play with the first video which may have been legitimate. The point is there has been two separate tests by different people that show the same results that doesn't support your position (perhaps your wrong again).

Your other comments is not worth my time to even respond to. :R

transferred wrote:

CumminsDriver wrote:
What nobody is comparing here, is that the Duramax and 2015 + Powerstroke engines are allowed by the engine computer to rev much higher during exhaust braking than the Cummins ECM allows. The Cummins will upshift at 3200 to 3300 rpms during exhaust braking if the exhaust brake will not hold the load. The Duramax and 2015+ Powerstroke will be allowed to rev close to or over 4000 rpms for exhaust braking, which may put these trucks in a lower gear than than the Ram. Watch the video again of the 2016 Duramax test and it clearly shows the engine at 3500+ rpms when exhaust braking. I have owned a Ram/Cummins truck and now own the Chevy/Duramax combo. Under 3000 rpms the Cummins exhaust brake works just as well if not better than my current truck. Over 3000 rpm's and that is where the extra pumping of the Duramax engine really makes a difference.

Just my experience with owning both brands of trucks.

Rich

Okay I understand what you're saying, but what is the relevance of what RPM the redine is at? Sure the Cummins has a lower redline but at the end of the day that's a design limitation of the engine and so, unlike using the wrong EB setting, not an error on the tester's part.

I didn't say anything about the engine redline, and you're right, it is a design limitation on the Cummins. The Duramax and Powerstroke are allowed to rev much higher during exhaust braking, which equals to be more exhaust braking power. Being able to rev higher during exhaust braking allows the truck to be in a lower gear for a given speed compared to the Cummins, which is limited to much lower RPM's during those tests. I'd bet that at 3500+ rpms that Duramax was in 3rd gear and had very good braking power. If it was limited to a little over 3000 rpm's for exhaust braking like the Cummins is, it would have been in 4th gear at lower rpm's and wouldn't have been able to hold the trailer back nearly as well, resulting in more brake applications. Different gears can make a difference also, as the Duramax had 3.73's and the Ram had 4.10's.

FishOnOne wrote:
Here's the video I was referring to that demonstrates Chevy's exhaust brake as being the best performer. Also noteworthy I think the Ford and Ram are '14 models. We do know Fords exhaust brake capability for the '15 model has been improved while the Ram's exhaust brake capability has been the same since '13.

Link

Yeah, that is kind of irrelevant since you don't know which mode the truck was in. From my experience of using Ram's auto mode and exhaust brake in general, it would have no problems keeping the speed with just 10k lbs on that hill IF it was in auto mode or in full mode and you manually downshifted. It is clear by how fast the truck was gaining speed that it was in full mode and in 6th gear which is when the exhaust brake is at its weakest. You can also clearly hear the GM truck they are in in higher rpms which means it had downshifted to make its exhaust brake stronger in order to hold speed.

Fish, I know you are just using this as an opportunity to go out of your way to piss on Cummins like you normally do in these forums, but if you honestly think that a pre-2015 Powerstroke without an exhaust brake and only using grade braking can hold speed better than a Cummins with an an exhaust brake in auto mode that is downshifting to hold speed as well then you are on crack my friend. The only way a pre-2015 Powerstroke that does not have an exhaust brake can outperform a Cummins with an exhaust brake in that test is if the Powerstoke was downshifting and using grade braking to slow the truck down while the Cummins was in full mode and stayed in 6th the whole way down which looks to be the case. If it was in auto mode or if you manually downshifted in full mode, then that Cummins could have slowed down to a crawl without touching the brakes with just 10k behind it if you wanted it to.

I know that since your truck is a pre-2015 without an exhaust brake that you are not that familiar with towing with an EB, but when you do get your a new SD with an exhaust brake or go out and actually use a Ram's exhaust brake(properly) towing 10k lbs down a hill then you will see how ludicrous that video actually is.

Here's the video I was referring to that demonstrates Chevy's exhaust brake as being the best performer. Also noteworthy I think the Ford and Ram are '14 models. We do know Fords exhaust brake capability for the '15 model has been improved while the Ram's exhaust brake capability has been the same since '13.

Link

Hitting "RED LINE" without throttle fueling is not as big of a drama as some make it out to be. Todays vehicles will not let you destroy the engine from over red line down hill. It will merely upshift if above certain parameters.
My red line is 2200 but throw on the EB it will downshift to 2500 for maximum braking and very quickly be down below the 2200 mark. Soon after another downshift and again another 2500.
Even my previous 06 Ram with the Jacobs had much better braking running in the high RPM area.
I agree though, the FLT crew tests these trucks like my mom is going to drive it at 11000' elevation :W So it would be a fair test unless your driving skills a far superior to the average Joe.
I personelly think all three aren't going to get much more power without some kine of displacement down the road :B

transamz9 wrote:


My 2013 in full mode downshifts and applies full exhaust braking. The exhaust brake on full always tries to slow the truck at a curtain rate no matter what the speed. If the truck is not slowing down it will put out 100% of it's capability and will down shift when able to do so and not red line. In auto mode it does what it has to to hold a curtain speed. The two modes put out the same braking force.

The point I'm trying to make is that if the exhaust brake has enough power to hold the truck it will do it in either mode. The only difference is that in full on mode it will continue to slow the truck until around 20mph. On auto mode it will slow the truck until it hits the set speed then adjust it's output to just hold that speed.

Not exactly, as I said before the EB in full brake mode will not downshift to keep speed like auto mode will in certain situations. Full mode will downshift as you gradually slow down (as it naturally does without the EB)if the exhaust brake is strong enough to slow the truck down in the gear it is in. If it is not strong enough to slow the truck down in the gear it is in then it will NOT downshift to become stronger like auto mode will.

For example, say you were coming down the Ike towing 20k at 60 mph as the truck weight and grade was overpowering the EB in 6th gear and you start to gain speed. The exhaust brake in full mode will not downshift to become stronger when you are gaining speed and you have to apply the brakes in order to slow down in these scenarios where the force of the weight and grade is stronger than the force of the EB in high gears.

In auto mode it is a different story. If it is set at 60 mph and you start to gain speed, the EB in auto mode will automatically drop down a gear or two (since the higher the rpm the stronger the exhaust brake is) to keep you from gaining speed helping you slow down without touching the brakes.

This is only in certain extreme situations like the Ike where the load and grade is more powerful than the exhaust brake is in 6th or even 5th. About 99.9% of the time (or 100% of the time for most people who don't live by mountains) the full mode EB in 6th gear is strong enough to slow you down or at least keep speed without the need of a downshift like you say you usually experience.

RCMAN46 wrote:
Optimal setting or not I suspect Mr Truck had done the best the Ram was capable of.

At 60 mph which is what they decided to go down the hill (I suspect the speed limit) The Ram will be turning about 2600 rpm in 4th gear. It appears from what I saw in the video 4th gear was the gear used when the truck was going 60 mph.

Had Mr Truck dropped a gear as everyone thinks he should have that would bring the rpms up to about 3483. I believe that is well beyond red line for the 6.7 Cummins. I suspect with the computers used in the engines and transmissions the Ram will not allow 3rd gear operation at 60 mph.

Perhaps Cummins12V98 can verify what rpm the Ram would turn in 4th gear at 60 mph. There is a possibility my math is wrong.

Close but not exactly 60. This is with the 4.10's and Aisin trans.

Shinerbock wrote:

Yes, but as I stated they put the truck in the wrong exhaust brake mode. Pressing the exhaust brake button one more time would have put it in auto mode which is the mode you want if you want the truck to keep a certain speed and not mess with any manual shifting. However they had it in full mode which is the mode that may require you to downshift gears manually in order for the exhaust brake to be stronger. Ram's auto mode is the same as Chevy's standard mode that will automatically downshift on its own to make the exhaust brake stronger if the truck starts going over the desired speed.

My 2013 in full mode downshifts and applies full exhaust braking. The exhaust brake on full always tries to slow the truck at a curtain rate no matter what the speed. If the truck is not slowing down it will put out 100% of it's capability and will down shift when able to do so and not red line. In auto mode it does what it has to to hold a curtain speed. The two modes put out the same braking force.

The point I'm trying to make is that if the exhaust brake has enough power to hold the truck it will do it in either mode. The only difference is that in full on mode it will continue to slow the truck until around 20mph. On auto mode it will slow the truck until it hits the set speed then adjust it's output to just hold that speed.