Forum Discussion
78 Replies
ib516 wrote:
When I ditched diesel and bought a 6.4L Hemi, cost was only one thing I considered. The reliability of diesels at the time was suspect (2013 ish), and the DPF/DEF issue was something I didn't want to deal with. Most around here with trucks of that vintage have removed the emissions junk now as they tend to be troublesome when mileage creeps up, and since we don't have mandatory emissions testing.
I had about a 10 mile commute at the time, and neither of my diesels ever got to operating temp in 10 miles at -25 to -30*C or colder, even when the grill was completely blocked and they had been plugged in, inside a garage before starting. I froze every day driving to work. My use case would have killed a DPF equipped truck.
I also only towed (actually had the trailer behind the truck) for 5-7 days a YEAR. Yes, we took 3 week vacations, but that was usually 2-3 days total towing. Some trips were less than a day.
The 6.4L Hemi towed my 12k 5er with no issue at all. The mpg was about 30% less than the diesel it replaced, but unleaded is, and was cheaper than diesel fuel where I live (Canada).
The premium for a diesel over a gas truck in Canada is closer to 12K, not 9K.
I was very happy with the big gasser I had.
Now, if towing performance is the only data point you look at to compare trucks, the diesel will win every time, as they out perform the gassers when it comes to towing power. That is a fact. For me though, that was NOT the primary consideration. I was evaluating the truck based on the other 360 days of the year when I used it for personal use, and for that, the gasser won hands down.
In general I agree with your point in that it's about performance, however where we somewhat disagree is that this is a "tow Vehicles" forum.
My thoughts are based on the idea that the vehicle is used for towing.
I understand the vehicle may have other uses/duties but none of my comments or the commentary found on a towing forum are directed towards the other duties.
Does a diesel make the best: grocery getter, commuter car, or kid shuttle? No but those factors are not what we have in common on the towing forum.
The advice and info you will gain on this site applies strictly to towing. Those other factors are not pertinent when it comes to the tow vehicle discussion.wowens79 wrote:
My biggest concern going diesel is with all the Emmisions **** on them, and the cost to repair it. I know some have no probs, but you read stories all the time of CP4 fuel pump grenading and costing $10k to repair, or $5k Emmisions repairs.
I keep trucks well past warranty, my current truck I've had for 17 years, and 235k miles, and I've had 2 engine repairs. A fuel pump at 195k miles, and at 210k I had new rear main seal, oil cooler lines, valve cover gaskets etc replace because it was dripping oil all over the driveway. Total engine repairs over 17 years is less than $2500.
I'm debating new trucks now, and diesel vs gas is part of the debate. There is no denying that the diesel is a beast towing, but I'm only towing 8000k lbs, and I'm in the southeast, so we've got little hills compared the out west. After 15-20 years resale is not real a huge concern.
My thought is a diesel will cost you about the same as a gasser over the long haul.
I had an 07 LBZ Duramax that was still worth about $10K with 300K on the odometer. A gasser will not retain its value in that way
The only engine repair required was a water pump at 235K.
Otherwise all repairs were basically wear parts.
But in the end you don't buy a diesel for the value or the savings.
You buy it for the performance. A diesel will still tow your 8K trailer far better than a gasser in all conditions.
Add in the exhaust brake and now going diesel is simply a no brainer for me.
A gasser simply can't compete based on performance. The only advantage a gasser may have is that it is initially cheaper to buy. However if you do keep your truck a long time that initial purchase price advantage fades away. In the meantime a diesel owner enjoys the performance advantage of the diesel.
Sure you hear diesel nightmare stories. However gasser are not immune for catastrophic repairs. I own both diesel and gas vehicles, they all break down....LOL
The video in this thread simply shows diesel still maintain a significant performance advantage over a gasser when towing.
Yes you pay initially for this performance advantage, but over time that additional cost is returned.
Now if you feel you don't want or need the additional performance of a diesel than a gasser maybe for you. But ultimately the decision is really not $$$ as it is about performance.
In the end the $$$ will shake down to be very close within a couple of grand either way, however the performance between the 2 will never be very close.- When I ditched diesel and bought a 6.4L Hemi, cost was only one thing I considered. The reliability of diesels at the time was suspect (2013 ish), and the DPF/DEF issue was something I didn't want to deal with. Most around here with trucks of that vintage have removed the emissions junk now as they tend to be troublesome when mileage creeps up, and since we don't have mandatory emissions testing.
I had about a 10 mile commute at the time, and neither of my diesels ever got to operating temp in 10 miles at -25 to -30*C or colder, even when the grill was completely blocked and they had been plugged in, inside a garage before starting. I froze every day driving to work. My use case would have killed a DPF equipped truck.
I also only towed (actually had the trailer behind the truck) for 5-7 days a YEAR. Yes, we took 3 week vacations, but that was usually 2-3 days total towing. Some trips were less than a day.
The 6.4L Hemi towed my 12k 5er with no issue at all. The mpg was about 30% less than the diesel it replaced, but unleaded is, and was cheaper than diesel fuel where I live (Canada).
The premium for a diesel over a gas truck in Canada is closer to 12K, not 9K.
I was very happy with the big gasser I had.
Now, if towing performance is the only data point you look at to compare trucks, the diesel will win every time, as they out perform the gassers when it comes to towing power. That is a fact. For me though, that was NOT the primary consideration. I was evaluating the truck based on the other 360 days of the year when I used it for personal use, and for that, the gasser won hands down. - My biggest concern going diesel is with all the Emmisions **** on them, and the cost to repair it. I know some have no probs, but you read stories all the time of CP4 fuel pump grenading and costing $10k to repair, or $5k Emmisions repairs.
I keep trucks well past warranty, my current truck I've had for 17 years, and 235k miles, and I've had 2 engine repairs. A fuel pump at 195k miles, and at 210k I had new rear main seal, oil cooler lines, valve cover gaskets etc replace because it was dripping oil all over the driveway. Total engine repairs over 17 years is less than $2500.
I'm debating new trucks now, and diesel vs gas is part of the debate. There is no denying that the diesel is a beast towing, but I'm only towing 8000k lbs, and I'm in the southeast, so we've got little hills compared the out west. After 15-20 years resale is not real a huge concern. ls1mike wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
ls1mike wrote:
I can't believe people stressing over 3 and a half minutes. I towed all over with an 89 1 ton Big Block Chevy TBI for years and at times was down to 12mph.
We are talking the IKE. For someone like me who tows 7500 to 8000 lbs 15 to 20 times year and won't daily drive a truck this thing would work just fine.
10,000 to 15,000 dollars is not worth 3 and a half minutes to me. Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.
It is not just about 3 and half minutes. That was just one up hill section of many of having to hear an engine whine at 5k which gets tiring. It is also about having the power to spare when you need to pass. I used to think the same way you did until my old 4.6L F150. It was "just enough" until I was stuck behind a semi truck for what seemed like forever on a two lane road doing less than 45 mph because I did not have power to pass him when a passing lane opened. I would rather arrive at camp refreshed than with my nerves shot.
Also, a diesel does not cost $15k so I am not sure where you are getting that number from. If you count the fuel savings and resale/trade-in value, the difference is less than a few grand and in some cases like mine it is in the diesel's favor. If I traded my truck in today going by local trade-in value, the 6.4L gas version my truck would have cost me over $500 more accounting for fuel cost, preventative maintenance cost, taxes, interest, registration, and resale/trade-in value. My truck would be more expensive than the 5.7L version by a grand.
Certainly is 10 to 15000 dollars more here in Washington state. Place I picked up my truck had two new trucks on the lot. One diesel one gasser, same options 12,000 dollars difference.
WARNING!!!!! FACT CHECKER ALERT!!!!
Go to ANY of the manufacturers sites and build the trucks.
They simply do NOT cost that much more.
GM is 9295 more upfront. And tha includes the Allison tranny which you cannot get with a gasser. The only downside price wise is the initial price of admission to the diesel club. If you can afford it the first time, then you will recoup the money at trade in time. Then it costs very little to stay in the diesel club.
If your dealer is pulling the old additional markup over sticker routine, you need to shop elswhere.- Anybody remember the days of 4bbl BB V8s having maybe 200hp, 300-350lb ft of torque......3 forward gears.....
I'll bet that SB8 with 6+ gears goes circles around those tough BB gutless wonders......
Heck, my 350 V8 with 255hp does better than the BB gassers I had!
Get the right truck chassis, correct drivetrain for how you drive pull tow etc. Hit the EFFing road folks.
Days person looking to get rid of 25 series rig for a 1500 with more hp in a 6 banger than current V8, more forward gears, better overall low with 3.42 gears vs 4.10s in pumkin......
Marty Lets be realistic, anyone who tows 16,000 lbs up and down the IKE on the regular is not buying a gasser anyway.
Good point.
That 40' LEQ is one heavy trailer and not a good choice for a gazzer with 401 hp and just 4xx torque.
I imagine after the first year bugs are worked out GM will uprate the 6.6 gazzer a bit.
JMO.....I would like to see Ike testing done by experienced haulers who know how to keep a engine in its power band by manual shifting.
Down hill engine braking ? Any gazzer will do poorly with 16k-18k lbs pushing .ls1mike wrote:
Not at all, do you really think you need a diesel to tow 7500 to 8000lbs 15 to 20 times a year? If I exceed 10,000 I will certainly be looking at one, but for someone who does not daily drive their truck and isn't towing more than 10,000lbs regularly it is not needed.
No if I was at that weight I'd probably still have a gas truck. That said I like having more truck than needed. Even if the 20 gas trucks are rated to pull our 5'th. I'm not giving up the Duramax or the extra 2 tires.- I can’t believe that they only offer 3.73’s in that truck pulling 16k. 4.10’s are the way to go with a small block gasser.
ShinerBock wrote:
Yeah, but calculate total cost of ownership with a release/trade-in value at the end of 100k or 150k like I did below. You will find that even if you don't tow at all, the difference in cost is nowhere near that.
Here's What the professional data says Clicky
