Forum Discussion
ShinerBock wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.
BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.
Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.
I disagree with people all the time, but I don't comment or quote them. The second I do, then it becomes and argument or debate. There is a difference.
In regards to the GM IFS. I Googled multiple posts of yours talking about your parents GM IFS. In some you say it is better than a solid axle and in others you say it is no difference that your solid axle truck. You even mentioned in some that they are not reliable as a solid axle. So I guess it depends on the brand the IFS is attached to on which is better?
Who effin cares....
PS, little obsessive if your searching someone's old posts just to prove some point that noone cares aboot....FishOnOne wrote:
The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.
BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.
Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.
I disagree with people all the time, but I don't comment or quote them. The second I do, then it becomes and argument or debate. There is a difference.
In regards to the GM IFS. I Googled multiple posts of yours talking about your parents GM IFS. In some you say it is better than a solid axle and in others you say it is no difference that your solid axle truck. You even mentioned in some that they are not reliable as a solid axle. So I guess it depends on the brand the IFS is attached to on which is better?ShinerBock wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.
This is exactly what I have been saying yet you and others have been arguing with me. Solid axles are better for slow speed off roading while IFS is better for higher speeds. Hence the reason why I stated that IFS is not ideal for the type of off roading "I" do in my first post because everyone's off roading is different. Yet people took offence to what I think is ideal for the type of off roading "I" do.
Also, the comparison in ride quality between the Wrangler and Bronco is no different than my (and yours) solid axle HD truck versus the IFS GM trucks. My Wrangler is just as rough as my Ram HD and my brothers old 2012 Ford SD which is what you have as well. Is IFS smoother on roads? No doubt, but I didn't buy my Jeep for what it can do on road just like you didn't buy your truck for a smooth ride.
Also, if I am not mistaken. You yourself have pointed out how the IFS of your parents GM truck rides the same as your solid axle truck. I guess it depends what brand the IFS is attached to on whether or not you think it is the best or not.
The IFS on a GM HD truck has very little travel until it hits a jounce bumper and the torsion bar spring is not as good as a coil spring. Not a good design to absorb high impact shock.
BTW... No one is arguing with you but more like disagreeing with you.
Bottom line the Jeep has it's place in the off road world and now the same goes with the new Bronco.FishOnOne wrote:
Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.
This is exactly what I have been saying yet you and others have been arguing with me. Solid axles are better for slow speed off roading while IFS is better for higher speeds. Hence the reason why I stated that IFS is not ideal for the type of off roading "I" do in my first post because everyone's off roading is different. Yet people took offence to what I think is ideal for the type of off roading "I" do.
Also, the comparison in ride quality between the Wrangler and Bronco is no different than my (and yours) solid axle HD truck versus the IFS GM trucks. My Wrangler is just as rough as my Ram HD and my brothers old 2012 Ford SD which is what you have as well. Is IFS smoother on roads? No doubt, but I didn't buy my Jeep for what it can do on road just like you didn't buy your truck for a smooth ride.
Also, if I am not mistaken. You yourself have pointed out how the IFS of your parents GM truck rides the same as your solid axle truck. I guess it depends what brand the IFS is attached to on whether or not you think it is the best or not.- I agree, each have pros and cons. As a guy who has owned and still do both Jeeps and Broncos I have a fondness for both. I was pretty disappointed when the Bronco was introduced with IFS.
I think IFS will work great for 90% who purchase one. I personally think that solid axle pros out weight the cons. I don't think the Bronco will siphon very many Jeep loyalists.
I also prefer rear wheel drive cars, manual shift transfer cases, and the simplicity of vehicles 25 years ago, so I'm not the average buyer.FishOnOne wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).
In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.
Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.
Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.
And it looks like what I stated here has begun......
2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle
The axle shafts looked good to me... And having lockers means its less critical that all four tires are on the ground in order to gain the necessary traction.
What I stated the Bronco will more than enough perform as a daily driver and perform the vast majority of the offroad duties. If extreme rock crawling is your thing I'm sure the aftermarket will have the parts just like they do for the Jeep.
Notice I said "you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails", not just axle shafts. Even multiple Bronco owners in that thread stated that the solid axle of the Wrangler is better in that situation just like post #14 did. Don't need any aftermarket mods to make my dana 44 front/rear axles or linkage components stronger and it would definitely handle that kind of rock crawling with stock components without braking. As I said, rock crawling is IFS's weak link and should be left to the solid axle vehicles unless you want to see your front end parts all over the trail.
Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of. ShinerBock wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
Not all of those had front lockers. The only one of those that had a front locker with IFS was the FJ and they were known for busting axle shafts which even the FJ guys will tell you (LINK).
In the kind of rock crawling off roading I do, you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails especially ones with front lockers. These parts(which are much smaller and weaker than SFA) will wear a lot quicker and are not as reliable off road as the solid axles. The problem gets worse when you start adding larger and heavier tires. I can't tell you how many times our group has had to go around an obstacle because an IFS with lockers grenaded trying to go up.
Then there is the fact of less traction on technical obstacles. IFS's will generally have one tire off the ground to where a solid axle will have both on the ground aiding traction. This is also one of the reason why they grenade. Since only one wheel has traction, the driver has to apply more throttle and starts to hop because the components are in a bind. This hopping and acceleration is not good for axle shafts since only one tire has all the weight and traction on the front end. IFS's without lockers do not tend to grenade as often, but cannot go up the really technical obstacles that lockers can.
Not saying it can't do it, it is just not ideal and is better suited for fast off roading where IFS shines over solid axles.
And it looks like what I stated here has begun......
2021 Bronco snaps both tie rods valiantly on extreme obstacle
The axle shafts looked good to me... And having lockers means its less critical that all four tires are on the ground in order to gain the necessary traction.
What I stated the Bronco will more than enough perform as a daily driver and perform the vast majority of the offroad duties. If extreme rock crawling is your thing I'm sure the aftermarket will have the parts just like they do for the Jeep.
Notice I said "you see broken IFS front end parts all over the trails", not just axle shafts. Even multiple Bronco owners in that thread stated that the solid axle of the Wrangler is better in that situation just like post #14 did. Don't need any aftermarket mods to make my dana 44 front/rear axles or linkage components stronger and it would definitely handle that kind of rock crawling with stock components without braking. As I said, rock crawling is IFS's weak link and should be left to the solid axle vehicles unless you want to see your front end parts all over the trail.
Each suspension type IFS and Solid axle have there pros and cons. You have to decide how you are going to use the vehicle and go from there.
I used to work with a guy who purchased a 4 door Wrangler and after he drove it from Houston to San Antonio and back he sold it after owning it a couple of months simply on the ride quality or lack of.pitch wrote:
Not downing the Bronco? 5 posts all saying that it does not work. You are aware that it is probably only 10% or less is into serious rock crawling don't you. The other 90 % is mud, overlanding,FS roads,hill climbing,etc. I have seen videos of the Bronco taking on the Rubicon and it did just as well as the Jeeps.
You probably could have made one post saying that while the Bronco would suffice for most,it just isn't for you.
Actually my inital post in this thread was this.....ShinerBock wrote:
I was excited about it until I learned it was IFS which is not ideal for the kind of off roading I do. I will stick with my JK.
And every post after that was in defense of this opinion that I stated which I have every right to have and it is the truth. I would have let it die with that comment and moved on if nobody would have gotten triggered by my opinion and kept quoting me with a rebuttal like you just did. That compels me to reply.- Or to put it more succinctly, who cares?
Of the number of new 4x4s sold, how many are used as rock buggies?
And of those very few, how many aren’t people who are just too dumb or have too much money to realize IFS is not the best solution for crawlers?
Guessing Ford doesn’t give 2 schitts since they’re selling like overpriced hotcakes!
Nor should anyone else. Unless you’re one of the few who are too dumb or have too much money to care….
IFS 4x4s are sooooo horrible, that of the dozens of them I’ve had from personal trucks to company rigs, including a tuned diesel in one of them, that I’ve broken exactly zero tie rods or half shafts in the better part of 30 years…. Including some of the early ifs GM trucks that definitely got wheeled pretty hard back in the day.
Would I buy a ifs truck as a dedicated wheeler? Nope. Because I’m not one of the above mentioned people on either account. Does that hurt Ford sales? Also no. ShinerBock wrote:
mich800 wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
For our off road and daily driver needs a IFS could be the ticket, but will need to test drive to confirm. I would like a soft long travel suspension which it appears how the Bronco is setup.
We came close to pulling the trigger on a Jeep Wrangler but with a few things we didn't like about it, and knowing the Bronco was coming we decided to hold off. Based on what I've seen we made the right decision.
The Bronco doesn't even have a mid-travel suspension let alone a long travel suspension. Heck, even the Raptor doesn't have a mid-travel suspension, but it is very close. If you are gonna use this vehicle as a daily/mall crawler that is not going to do any heavy rock crawling then IFS is the way to go. It will be noticeably smoother than a solid axle Jeep that you would have to throw a grand or so into for the same smoothness. If you do decide to take it on some serious trails, then make sure you bring along spare parts and/or upgrade to stronger materials if they have a lot of miles on them.
Not everyone does rock crawling for their off road adventures. The trade off is pretty high between that ability and on road manners. I drive Wranglers/Renegades probably 1000 miles per week for work and they suck on the highway. For the trails I travel the IFS is a much better compromise. But I have not been able to test the Bronco yet to do a direct comparison.
I understand that. Not downing the Bronco. It is just not ideal for the way I off road. No doubt an IFS is more comfortable for those that need that, but it is just not as capable or as strong. Another thing I hate about IFS's off road is that they teeter totter on a lot of obstacles which is an uneasy feeling.
It is like the GM HDs. No doubt they give their trucks a more comfortable ride stock, but it is not as strong/reliable as solid axles of the Ford and Ram HDs when you start adding bigger tires and heavy off roading. They also cannot take the abuse that a solid axle can which is why it is common for the GM HD front ends to snap on the track or at truck pulls.
Not downing the Bronco? 5 posts all saying that it does not work. You are aware that it is probably only 10% or less is into serious rock crawling don't you. The other 90 % is mud, overlanding,FS roads,hill climbing,etc. I have seen videos of the Bronco taking on the Rubicon and it did just as well as the Jeeps.
You probably could have made one post saying that while the Bronco would suffice for most,it just isn't for you.stsmark wrote:
I have to agree with the second post on that thread, how do you break both tie rods? I just can’t see what on that obstacle could have caused that.
Saw a TRD 4Runner do this up in Hidden Falls not too long ago. He was trying to get over an obstacle with one of his passenger tire up in the air (due to his IFS) placing all the strain on his driver tire. He only had A-TRAC (E-LSD) up front which requires you to spin the tire a little bit to make the brakes stop the spinning wheel forcing all the torque to the wheel on the ground.
He started giving it the beans to get over the rock while also needing to turn. A-TRAC did it's job sending all the torque to the wheel on the ground while he was trying to turn and SNAP went the drivers side tie rod. The drivers side tire turned (since it was not being forced to go with the steering wheel) and caused the passenger side of the vehicle to the ground. Once the driver side tire slammed to the ground, SNAP went the other tie rod.
I went up the same obstacle with both tires on the ground spreading the traction (and tension) between both tires. I didn't even need to use my front locker. Even if I have had a tire up in the air, my tie rod and other components (which are all stock other than my track bar being a longer one for the lift) were a lot bigger and stronger than his which is generally the case with solid axles versus IFS's due to their designs.
