7.3L VS. 6.7L PSD

twodownzero wrote:
As great as the 7.3 was in its time, the time for a 210 hp Diesel engine in a full sized pickup has passed. All the reliability in the world couldn't convince me to buy such a rig these days unless I was severely budget limited.

X2

BigToe wrote:

BubbaChris wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of used 6.7's around here for sale as they get close to the 100K mile mark.

And this illustrates a key difference to be considered when comparing the 7.3L to a 6.7L.

People who trade their trucks in every few years will of course prefer the 6.7L. They'll be in and OUT of it before the warranty expires, so why not?

People who hang on to their trucks for 20 to 30 years have a different perspective. Not only is there no warranty safety net... there is also a brain drain as the most senior diesel techs who were trained on the older engine will have retired, and the newer diesel dealer techs are trained on the current engines, as those are the engines that the dealer has to service under warranty.

So folks who don't want to pay a lot of interest or depreciation on a regular diet of new trucks realize that they will eventually become their own warranty and service station. They will be 100% responsible for keeping the truck alive... even it it means offering direction and guidance to an independent shop.

To these folks, simplicity, and a critical mass of available parts in the aftermarket, and a common and widespread knowledge base about the engine... are more valuable than who won what at some dusty drag track. Reliability and ease of maintenance are more important than HP and TQ numbers. And a $5 phone app with a $15 blue tooth dongle that has full diagnostics abilities is a lot more palatable than a $2,000 a year subscription to Motorcraft Service in order to use a $4,000 IDS scan tool, or even to make full use of an $800 Chinese IDS clone to figure out what is wrong with the complexities of emission systems in the newer engines.

There are reasons why the 7.3L lives that are lost on those who trade their trucks in every few years. These two types of folks will always see this issue differently, and not understand the logic of the the other. Therefore, no consensus regarding which is better will every be agreed to.

There is the type of person who has everything done for them... and as such need only concern themselves with how they feel driving it. And there is the type of person who does things for themselves... and as such must concern themselves with how it works, because they'll be fixing it when it doesn't.

A broken 6.7 requires a tow to competent dealership, and five figures of cash to back it up when Ford denies the warranty claim for water in the fuel. A 7.3L requires only an empty jug to drain the bowl, and most problems can be fixed in a parking lot at Walmart. O rings are a lot cheaper than a bevy of O2 sensors. Which engine is better entirely depends on the type of person owning the vehicle.

Exactly how are you comparing the miles on the odo for used trucks with the 6.7 vs the 7.3 and drawing some conclusion as to why they are on the used car lot? Of course used 7.3's will have higher miles. They haven't been in production pushing 20 years now.

wilber1 wrote:

LanceRKeys wrote:
I disagree, you can separate the engine from the drive train, it’s only held together by a few bolts... I agree about the article, I have a 7.3 and I am a big fan, but you can’t compare the two, if money were no concern I would have bought a 6.7.

Not really, mechanically there might only be a few bolts but electronically, today's engines and transmissions are fully integrated. You don't see people putting 6 speed 68RFE's behind 5.9 Cummins even though it would be a fantastic improvement over the 48RE.

You got me there! Good point.

wilber1 wrote:
Not really, mechanically there might only be a few bolts but electronically, today's engines and transmissions are fully integrated. You don't see people putting 6 speed 68RFE's behind 5.9 Cummins even though it would be a fantastic improvement over the 48RE.

Because they can do better, going to these folks and putting an Allison behind that 5.9.

http://www.caconversions.com/

Charles

LanceRKeys wrote:
I disagree, you can separate the engine from the drive train, it’s only held together by a few bolts... I agree about the article, I have a 7.3 and I am a big fan, but you can’t compare the two, if money were no concern I would have bought a 6.7.

Not really, mechanically there might only be a few bolts but electronically, today's engines and transmissions are fully integrated. You don't see people putting 6 speed 68RFE's behind 5.9 Cummins even though it would be a fantastic improvement over the 48RE.

The only reason Ford guys love the 7.3 so much was that the 6.0 and 6.4 were such POSs. The same year 5.9 Cummins was a better, longer lasting engine than the 7.3 but because they didn't have an equivalent to the terrible 6.0, 6.4 they were taken more for granted.

BigToe wrote:

BubbaChris wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of used 6.7's around here for sale as they get close to the 100K mile mark.

And this illustrates a key difference to be considered when comparing the 7.3L to a 6.7L.

People who trade their trucks in every few years will of course prefer the 6.7L. They'll be in and OUT of it before the warranty expires, so why not?

People who hang on to their trucks for 20 to 30 years have a different perspective. Not only is there no warranty safety net... there is also a brain drain as the most senior diesel techs who were trained on the older engine will have retired, and the newer diesel dealer techs are trained on the current engines, as those are the engines that the dealer has to service under warranty.

So folks who don't want to pay a lot of interest or depreciation on a regular diet of new trucks realize that they will eventually become their own warranty and service station. They will be 100% responsible for keeping the truck alive... even it it means offering direction and guidance to an independent shop.

To these folks, simplicity, and a critical mass of available parts in the aftermarket, and a common and widespread knowledge base about the engine... are more valuable than who won what at some dusty drag track. Reliability and ease of maintenance are more important than HP and TQ numbers. And a $5 phone app with a $15 blue tooth dongle that has full diagnostics abilities is a lot more palatable than a $2,000 a year subscription to Motorcraft Service in order to use a $4,000 IDS scan tool, or even to make full use of an $800 Chinese IDS clone to figure out what is wrong with the complexities of emission systems in the newer engines.

There are reasons why the 7.3L lives that are lost on those who trade their trucks in every few years. These two types of folks will always see this issue differently, and not understand the logic of the the other. Therefore, no consensus regarding which is better will every be agreed to.

There is the type of person who has everything done for them... and as such need only concern themselves with how they feel driving it. And there is the type of person who does things for themselves... and as such must concern themselves with how it works, because they'll be fixing it when it doesn't.

A broken 6.7 requires a tow to competent dealership, and five figures of cash to back it up when Ford denies the warranty claim for water in the fuel. A 7.3L requires only an empty jug to drain the bowl, and most problems can be fixed in a parking lot at Walmart. O rings are a lot cheaper than a bevy of O2 sensors. Which engine is better entirely depends on the type of person owning the vehicle.

While I agree there is value in the simplicity of the 7.3 vs. the 6.7
however you have to way that value vs. ability.
The 6.7 is more capable, in many cases the 6.7 is rated to tow loads that the 7.3 era truck simply can't.
I while I agree I don't want to empty my wallet at the Ford stealership. I also do not want to be stranded on a Walmart parking lot working on my 7.3 as though that is somehow acceptable.
I had a couple of 7.3 trucks that were great in there day, but they broke down and were towed away just like the current trucks.
Just like the Model T the 7.3 was revolutionary in its day, but trying to compare the model T to a Tesla or a 7.3 to a 6.7 is futile.
The 7.3 may win the nostalgia award but that is about it.
Once you look beyond the engine and consider the transmission and the rest of the truck the 7.3 just can't stand up to a 6.7 era truck.

BubbaChris wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of used 6.7's around here for sale as they get close to the 100K mile mark.

And this illustrates a key difference to be considered when comparing the 7.3L to a 6.7L.

People who trade their trucks in every few years will of course prefer the 6.7L. They'll be in and OUT of it before the warranty expires, so why not?

People who hang on to their trucks for 20 to 30 years have a different perspective. Not only is there no warranty safety net... there is also a brain drain as the most senior diesel techs who were trained on the older engine will have retired, and the newer diesel dealer techs are trained on the current engines, as those are the engines that the dealer has to service under warranty.

So folks who don't want to pay a lot of interest or depreciation on a regular diet of new trucks realize that they will eventually become their own warranty and service station. They will be 100% responsible for keeping the truck alive... even it it means offering direction and guidance to an independent shop.

To these folks, simplicity, and a critical mass of available parts in the aftermarket, and a common and widespread knowledge base about the engine... are more valuable than who won what at some dusty drag track. Reliability and ease of maintenance are more important than HP and TQ numbers. And a $5 phone app with a $15 blue tooth dongle that has full diagnostics abilities is a lot more palatable than a $2,000 a year subscription to Motorcraft Service in order to use a $4,000 IDS scan tool, or even to make full use of an $800 Chinese IDS clone to figure out what is wrong with the complexities of emission systems in the newer engines.

There are reasons why the 7.3L lives that are lost on those who trade their trucks in every few years. These two types of folks will always see this issue differently, and not understand the logic of the the other. Therefore, no consensus regarding which is better will every be agreed to.

There is the type of person who has everything done for them... and as such need only concern themselves with how they feel driving it. And there is the type of person who does things for themselves... and as such must concern themselves with how it works, because they'll be fixing it when it doesn't.

A broken 6.7 requires a tow to competent dealership, and five figures of cash to back it up when Ford denies the warranty claim for water in the fuel. A 7.3L requires only an empty jug to drain the bowl, and most problems can be fixed in a parking lot at Walmart. O rings are a lot cheaper than a bevy of O2 sensors. Which engine is better entirely depends on the type of person owning the vehicle.

I'd take a current 3/4 ton gasser from Ford, GM, or Ram over the 7.3 knowing it would be my DD. Doubt I could get my DW into the 7.3 more than once.

I spent the early '80s driving a 70 Barracuda that cost me 3X purchase price in maintenance costs. The next two times I got into a performance car were a '94 Integra GS-R and then a '98 Lexus GS400. Evolved technology wins every time in my book.

I'm noticing a lot of used 6.7's around here for sale as they get close to the 100K mile mark. Then again my radar is up as I hope to be upgrading from my Expy this time next year.

Best regards,
Chris

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Lantley wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
The difference between the 7.3/6.7 Pstroke and the 5.9/6.7 Cummins, is if both mfgs dropped the old school engines in a 2019 truck with everything else that comes on a new truck, Ford would sell a few and Ram would have people lined up around the block with their wallets out.....

Aside from being noisier and not having a built in exhaust brake which is a $1500-2000 out of pocket upgrade, a 5.9 CR engine with a 2 micron fuel filter and any cheap canned tune gives up nothing to a new 6.7 Cummins.
7.3 requires more work to get to that point.

Yeah that all sounds good but now back to reality.
If you could buy OEM truck with a Cummins engine,a Ford Frame and and Allison Transmission you'd sell lots of those too.
But just like unicorns these configurations do not exist.
You won't find any old school engines going into 2019 trucks.
Maybe it's nice to let our minds wander, but at the end of the day there is no point in comparing a 7.3 PSD to a 6.7 PSD unless you are discussing how the engines evolved. Otherwise there is just no comparison.
Next up Lets compare the performance of a model T vs.Tesla

No, you're right, just bsing here. 10-15 years ago, I'd say you're spot on with the Fummins with an Allison trans.
Today, heck I'd even take a new Powerstroke with no reservations. Would just hate to look at the mess under the hood!

Actually a 6.7PSD looks a lot cleaner from the bottom up then a 6.7ctd. :W

Really, not from what I saw, far from it - post up some pics to back up this claim.