7.3L VS. 6.7L PSD

wilber1 wrote:



For racing maybe but not for towing. I would never go back to a four speed anything if I could have a six speed instead.

They are not just for racing. Spoke with the guys over at Revmax when I was looking for an upgraded trans and they said it was a popular swap even for those not racing. There are some on the Cummins forums that have swapped and are not racing either.

Although, this was because for a long time no one was able to build a 68RFE to hold over 600 hp reliably. Even the built units were not lasting long so they went with the 48RE. Now, thanks to things like the Sonnax overdrive hub and Revmax valve bodies, you can build a 68RFE to reliably handle over 800 hp.

ShinerBock wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

LanceRKeys wrote:
I disagree, you can separate the engine from the drive train, it’s only held together by a few bolts... I agree about the article, I have a 7.3 and I am a big fan, but you can’t compare the two, if money were no concern I would have bought a 6.7.

Not really, mechanically there might only be a few bolts but electronically, today's engines and transmissions are fully integrated. You don't see people putting 6 speed 68RFE's behind 5.9 Cummins even though it would be a fantastic improvement over the 48RE.

Many of the people in the Cummins diesel racing world swap out their 68RFE for a built 48RFE since it can be built stronger.

For racing maybe but not for towing. I would never go back to a four speed anything if I could have a six speed instead.

mountainkowboy wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Payload on a 7.3 F450 should be very high since they were only available as a Cab and Chassis truck. Good luck finding one that's in half decent shape since most of these trucks had massive utility beds on the back of them.

They were available in all configurations, cab and chassis, super and crew cabs, with and without beds. I have no problem finding low mileage F450's that aren't beat to $hit, there just pricey. But they're not 50K and up as the 6.7's are, and most ANY diesel shop can work on them if you can't.

From the Ford towing guide they only list cab and chassis.
I imagine some aftermarket outfitter would equip them with a bed . But it appears from the guide they were available from Ford cab & chassis only as Fish mentioned.
I'm not certain I could proclaim a 20 year old truck with no exhaust brake and a vulnerable transmission is the ultimate TC hauler,but I understand where you're coming from. If budget and simplicity is your only criteria the 7.3 will shine.
But if you consider performance, creature features and capability the 7.3 is a dinosaur.
As an ex 7.3 owner I agree a little tune can go a long way with the 7.3, but for me the 7.3's day has come and gone

2002 Ford Towing Guide

FishOnOne wrote:

Payload on a 7.3 F450 should be very high since they were only available as a Cab and Chassis truck. Good luck finding one that's in half decent shape since most of these trucks had massive utility beds on the back of them.

They were available in all configurations, cab and chassis, super and crew cabs, with and without beds. I have no problem finding low mileage F450's that aren't beat to $hit, there just pricey. But they're not 50K and up as the 6.7's are, and most ANY diesel shop can work on them if you can't.

Lantley wrote:
What is the paltry payload of a 7.3 F450? Can it handle a big Modern TC?
You can sort a make a case that the 7.3 is a worthwhile engine that can produce more power. However the rest of the 7.3 era trucks are lacking capability vs. today's modern diesels

Hahaha.....

2002....
GVWR 15K
GCWR 22K
GAWR 11K rear, 5,400 front
Curb weight between 6,600-7,800 depending on equipment...hardly "paltry".

No matter what year 7.3 PSD it is, 400-500 rear wheel horse power is pretty easy to get...making it MORE than capable for whatever you might need.

Lantley wrote:
What is the paltry payload of a 7.3 F450? Can it handle a big Modern TC?
You can sort a make a case that the 7.3 is a worthwhile engine that can produce more power. However the rest of the 7.3 era trucks are lacking capability vs. today's modern diesels

Payload on a 7.3 F450 should be very high since they were only available as a Cab and Chassis truck. Good luck finding one that's in half decent shape since most of these trucks had massive utility beds on the back of them.

What is the paltry payload of a 7.3 F450? Can it handle a big Modern TC?
You can sort a make a case that the 7.3 is a worthwhile engine that can produce more power. However the rest of the 7.3 era trucks are lacking capability vs. today's modern diesels

FishOnOne wrote:

BigToe wrote:

BubbaChris wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of used 6.7's around here for sale as they get close to the 100K mile mark.

And this illustrates a key difference to be considered when comparing the 7.3L to a 6.7L.

People who trade their trucks in every few years will of course prefer the 6.7L. They'll be in and OUT of it before the warranty expires, so why not?

People who hang on to their trucks for 20 to 30 years have a different perspective. Not only is there no warranty safety net... there is also a brain drain as the most senior diesel techs who were trained on the older engine will have retired, and the newer diesel dealer techs are trained on the current engines, as those are the engines that the dealer has to service under warranty.

So folks who don't want to pay a lot of interest or depreciation on a regular diet of new trucks realize that they will eventually become their own warranty and service station. They will be 100% responsible for keeping the truck alive... even it it means offering direction and guidance to an independent shop.

To these folks, simplicity, and a critical mass of available parts in the aftermarket, and a common and widespread knowledge base about the engine... are more valuable than who won what at some dusty drag track. Reliability and ease of maintenance are more important than HP and TQ numbers. And a $5 phone app with a $15 blue tooth dongle that has full diagnostics abilities is a lot more palatable than a $2,000 a year subscription to Motorcraft Service in order to use a $4,000 IDS scan tool, or even to make full use of an $800 Chinese IDS clone to figure out what is wrong with the complexities of emission systems in the newer engines.

There are reasons why the 7.3L lives that are lost on those who trade their trucks in every few years. These two types of folks will always see this issue differently, and not understand the logic of the the other. Therefore, no consensus regarding which is better will every be agreed to.

There is the type of person who has everything done for them... and as such need only concern themselves with how they feel driving it. And there is the type of person who does things for themselves... and as such must concern themselves with how it works, because they'll be fixing it when it doesn't.

A broken 6.7 requires a tow to competent dealership, and five figures of cash to back it up when Ford denies the warranty claim for water in the fuel. A 7.3L requires only an empty jug to drain the bowl, and most problems can be fixed in a parking lot at Walmart. O rings are a lot cheaper than a bevy of O2 sensors. Which engine is better entirely depends on the type of person owning the vehicle.

And I remember dealers had 7.3 trucks on the lots with near 100k on them too. A lot people trade in trucks every few years and most dealers will not put a high mileage truck on their lot and will be sold to a whole seller. And to suggest any truck's injectors are not affected by water is simply misleading.

I bought my 95 7.3PS from a dealer with 102K on the clock, and it now has 345K on it, with very little repair done to it. The E4OD died on me at 173K, and was replaced with an upgraded one. The guy I sold it to won't let me buy it back...I've tried a few times.

We haven't fully decided on the direction we will go when retired, but if we go BIG TC, it will be either an F450 7.3 PSD or a 2011 and later gasser. I keep my trucks for a LONG TIME...Red's 30. I can work on the PSD and it won't cost me an arm and a leg if something goes wrong with it. I really don't care about the noise the 7.3 makes I'm not going to be driving it more than 200-300 miles at a stretch anyhow, and there is a ton of sound deadening products available to insulate the cab . As for the power of the 7.3...there are ALOT of things available to increase it's power and still have ROCK SOLID reliability.....I'm good with that.

BigToe wrote:

BubbaChris wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of used 6.7's around here for sale as they get close to the 100K mile mark.

And this illustrates a key difference to be considered when comparing the 7.3L to a 6.7L.

People who trade their trucks in every few years will of course prefer the 6.7L. They'll be in and OUT of it before the warranty expires, so why not?

People who hang on to their trucks for 20 to 30 years have a different perspective. Not only is there no warranty safety net... there is also a brain drain as the most senior diesel techs who were trained on the older engine will have retired, and the newer diesel dealer techs are trained on the current engines, as those are the engines that the dealer has to service under warranty.

So folks who don't want to pay a lot of interest or depreciation on a regular diet of new trucks realize that they will eventually become their own warranty and service station. They will be 100% responsible for keeping the truck alive... even it it means offering direction and guidance to an independent shop.

To these folks, simplicity, and a critical mass of available parts in the aftermarket, and a common and widespread knowledge base about the engine... are more valuable than who won what at some dusty drag track. Reliability and ease of maintenance are more important than HP and TQ numbers. And a $5 phone app with a $15 blue tooth dongle that has full diagnostics abilities is a lot more palatable than a $2,000 a year subscription to Motorcraft Service in order to use a $4,000 IDS scan tool, or even to make full use of an $800 Chinese IDS clone to figure out what is wrong with the complexities of emission systems in the newer engines.

There are reasons why the 7.3L lives that are lost on those who trade their trucks in every few years. These two types of folks will always see this issue differently, and not understand the logic of the the other. Therefore, no consensus regarding which is better will every be agreed to.

There is the type of person who has everything done for them... and as such need only concern themselves with how they feel driving it. And there is the type of person who does things for themselves... and as such must concern themselves with how it works, because they'll be fixing it when it doesn't.

A broken 6.7 requires a tow to competent dealership, and five figures of cash to back it up when Ford denies the warranty claim for water in the fuel. A 7.3L requires only an empty jug to drain the bowl, and most problems can be fixed in a parking lot at Walmart. O rings are a lot cheaper than a bevy of O2 sensors. Which engine is better entirely depends on the type of person owning the vehicle.

And I remember dealers had 7.3 trucks on the lots with near 100k on them too. A lot people trade in trucks every few years and most dealers will not put a high mileage truck on their lot and will be sold to a whole seller. And to suggest any truck's injectors are not affected by water is simply misleading.

wilber1 wrote:

LanceRKeys wrote:
I disagree, you can separate the engine from the drive train, it’s only held together by a few bolts... I agree about the article, I have a 7.3 and I am a big fan, but you can’t compare the two, if money were no concern I would have bought a 6.7.

Not really, mechanically there might only be a few bolts but electronically, today's engines and transmissions are fully integrated. You don't see people putting 6 speed 68RFE's behind 5.9 Cummins even though it would be a fantastic improvement over the 48RE.

Many of the people in the Cummins diesel racing world swap out their 68RFE for a built 48RFE since it can be built stronger.