A Little Help With Weights

BFL13 wrote:
We all have our own attitudes as to what is "safe" for ourselves. It might mean going over what GM says is safe if it is just you in the GM truck.

No way am I going to take "some guy on the internet" 's advice as to what is safe, if it is different from what GM says is safe, for my wife and kids in the GM truck!

I will make up my own mind about what is "safe" for my own wife and kids, thank you very much! :(

I gather the OP is like-minded.

Then why did he ask the question?

mbloof wrote:


Actually the whole 'more truck then what is needed' all depends on where one lives and travels. Lets face it, different parts of North America have different regulations.

While discussing and attempting to debunk the whole weight thing on another forum we got this information for BC:

"Here are two different documents that outline
GVWR maximums in BC, specifically.

Document #1

Document #2"

The above comes with the mention of two popular tales:

The first being that they regularly have 'weight road blocks' and weigh everyone. While its rather unlikely to happen in most/all USA (they can't do roadblocks for drunks on NewYears Eve for example). No evidence of this actually happening.

The second is that at any accident it is standard practice to weigh all the vehicles involved and drop coverage on anyone that is over their GVWR. (no, I've not seen a actual insurance policy with this)

While I'm told that Alberta cares about the GAWR I have not seen a actual document to support that.

Where I live we have the following: https://www.oregon.gov/odot/MCT/Documents/weight_limits.pdf

I don't have any specifics on GM or Dodge but when it comes to Ford:
- F250/350SRW same axle (9700lbs) and breaks+pads

- F350DRW Dana80 (11K lbs), slightly larger master cylinder then above but the same rotors and breaks+pads as 250/350 SRW

- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

While many of us only care what the actual hardware is capable of and will factor in (or not!) our own personal margin of 'safety' I recall a conversation I had with a commercial truck driving friend (+50yrs experience and runs his own trucking company and builds/plays with race cars as a hobby) that he and any of his drivers would/could refuse to haul a load that had <1000lbs margin of safety per tire. (he was rather shocked that I clocked +40K miles with just a few 100lbs margin!)

Lets face it, different people have different ideas/limits to what they consider 'safe'.


- Mark0

you can throw thoes documents out the window. BC only cares about money. if your unit is over 10400lbs you have to get a special licence and they go by the GVWRnot the actual weight. and your truck registration fee is based off the GVWR as well as other factors. there has only been one over weight ticket issued to a rv that we can find and it was grosly overloaded, 1/2 tone with a camper hauling a fishing boat with a quad off some bracket on the back of the camper.

in 40 years I have never seen a road stop, they are for comercial vehicles and the christmas and newyears ones are for drinking. if they see anything obvious they will take it and run, but police dont carry scales so you have to look unsafe not just overloaded befor they will stop you.

BFL13 wrote:
We all have our own attitudes as to what is "safe" for ourselves. It might mean going over what GM says is safe if it is just you in the GM truck.

No way am I going to take "some guy on the internet" 's advice as to what is safe, if it is different from what GM says is safe, for my wife and kids in the GM truck!

I will make up my own mind about what is "safe" for my own wife and kids, thank you very much! :(

I gather the OP is like-minded.

gm, ford, dodge version of safe is with cost in mind. they set these so they don't have warenty claims and so on.. its all calculated by statistics if I limit stuff to this I will have the fewest amount of repairs over the next 5 years while offering a ok truck..

BFL13 wrote:
Just curious. What do you guys do for braking technique going down a mountain? Is the ABS "rated" for the truck specs only or can it handle (how much?) over-weight?

Usually they say just leave the brake on and let the ABS handle it for normal stops. But stomp and release is supposed to help keep the brakes from over-heating down a steep hill.

I never got a clear story on that so even with ABS, I do stomp and release after gearing down and the truck speeds up again anyway. Also stomp before the next sharp turn not during the next turn of course.

What is the correct technique?

OP probably got his brakes done on his new to him truck already. The rear diff takes a beating with a 5er, so maybe with a camper too. I got the shavings in the gear oil they spotted, and needed a "rear diff bearing kit". Things to check before the big trip while at the shop with no camper on when getting the new tires? OP probably knows all that, but might as well mention it.

Also OP now has a dually--have fun with a flat inner tire change! If you can even get at your spare with the camper on. :(

do people still pump brakes now that we have disk brakes and ABS? heck I rarly use the brakes anymore the truck will maintain under the speed limit on the coq down all the hills except one pilling my monster 5th wheel. that one I have to tap the brakes 3 times. with the install of the active cruiz crontroles tied into tow/haul and exhause brakes, its not to often you have to use them unless your intending to stop.

I know I lost a wire on the 5th wheel and my brakes handled stopping the extra weight with no issues untill I figued out something wasn't right.

I may be wrong but I think the braking is based on the combined vehicle rating as there are some places with out trailer braking laws, so the brakes have to be capable of stoping thoes types of trailers also. but like I said I am only guessing at this one.

mbloof and the Old 97? Not for me thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ggBWk-Q_NY

jimh406 wrote:

mbloof wrote:
- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

It's clear that the 14K GVWR on the pickup models compared to chassis models is a made up number. My 2010 F450 has a 14,500 GVWR. I like the truck, but I don't believe that newer lighter trucks are less capable. ;)

My F450 is one with 19.5s. They had more room for larger brakes with the exception of a few years that had 17s. Fwiw, I've read here that the rear diffs are the same on F350 DRW and F450s for a few years. That would be something else to check. The chassis cabs have the same diffs as far as I know with a lot higher GVWR.

That being said, I have no doubt my diesel F450 with 4.30s is very capable and could carry any truck camper or pull any fiver with ease. I probably could even carry a lighter popup. :D

Seriously though, I bought it used a few years ago just in case I ever wanted a giant fiver. I've paid in fuel costs, but it stops with the TC on probably about as fast as my Mustang GT. The brakes make my wife extremely confident. There was one panic stop with her driving that convinced her that the truck is totally awesome. She never had that feeling with the previous truck.

Actually for a number of years the F450 had a Dana110, I'm under the impression that for a few years it had a 16K GVWR as well.

The problem that many of us have with GVWR is that it is not based on engineering. I pity the folks that live in jurisdictions where it is important.


- Mark0.

We all have our own attitudes as to what is "safe" for ourselves. It might mean going over what GM says is safe if it is just you in the GM truck.

No way am I going to take "some guy on the internet" 's advice as to what is safe, if it is different from what GM says is safe, for my wife and kids in the GM truck!

I will make up my own mind about what is "safe" for my own wife and kids, thank you very much! :(

I gather the OP is like-minded.

mbloof wrote:
- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

It's clear that the 14K GVWR on the pickup models compared to chassis models is a made up number. My 2010 F450 has a 14,500 GVWR. I like the truck, but I don't believe that newer lighter trucks are less capable. ;)

My F450 is one with 19.5s. They had more room for larger brakes with the exception of a few years that had 17s. Fwiw, I've read here that the rear diffs are the same on F350 DRW and F450s for a few years. That would be something else to check. The chassis cabs have the same diffs as far as I know with a lot higher GVWR.

That being said, I have no doubt my diesel F450 with 4.30s is very capable and could carry any truck camper or pull any fiver with ease. I probably could even carry a lighter popup. :D

Seriously though, I bought it used a few years ago just in case I ever wanted a giant fiver. I've paid in fuel costs, but it stops with the TC on probably about as fast as my Mustang GT. The brakes make my wife extremely confident. There was one panic stop with her driving that convinced her that the truck is totally awesome. She never had that feeling with the previous truck.

Grit dog wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
Here is what I find confusing. It says leave your foot down and do not pump the brakes and the ABS will grab and release as required, but that is for coming to a stop. It does not seem to cover what happens on a long steep downhill run for keeping the brakes from overheating. Or does it?

https://www.icbc.com/partners/driver-training/Documents/ts274w.pdf

It's statements and questions like this that sometimes make me want to support those who just blatantly recommend more vehicle than needed for the job.
In other words, it's 2022 and if you don't even conceptually understand how ABS works and could somehow conceive that it will help a person who is riding their brakes down a hill, then you're grossly uninformed. Which is scary considering you drive a RV in the mountains!

Actually the whole 'more truck then what is needed' all depends on where one lives and travels. Lets face it, different parts of North America have different regulations.

While discussing and attempting to debunk the whole weight thing on another forum we got this information for BC:

"Here are two different documents that outline
GVWR maximums in BC, specifically.

Document #1

Document #2"

The above comes with the mention of two popular tales:

The first being that they regularly have 'weight road blocks' and weigh everyone. While its rather unlikely to happen in most/all USA (they can't do roadblocks for drunks on NewYears Eve for example). No evidence of this actually happening.

The second is that at any accident it is standard practice to weigh all the vehicles involved and drop coverage on anyone that is over their GVWR. (no, I've not seen a actual insurance policy with this)

While I'm told that Alberta cares about the GAWR I have not seen a actual document to support that.

Where I live we have the following: https://www.oregon.gov/odot/MCT/Documents/weight_limits.pdf

I don't have any specifics on GM or Dodge but when it comes to Ford:
- F250/350SRW same axle (9700lbs) and breaks+pads

- F350DRW Dana80 (11K lbs), slightly larger master cylinder then above but the same rotors and breaks+pads as 250/350 SRW

- F450 Dana80 (11K lbs), IDK about master cylinder however larger rotor and pads (odd because BOTH DRW's 350/450 have same 14K GVWR).

While many of us only care what the actual hardware is capable of and will factor in (or not!) our own personal margin of 'safety' I recall a conversation I had with a commercial truck driving friend (+50yrs experience and runs his own trucking company and builds/plays with race cars as a hobby) that he and any of his drivers would/could refuse to haul a load that had <1000lbs margin of safety per tire. (he was rather shocked that I clocked +40K miles with just a few 100lbs margin!)

Lets face it, different people have different ideas/limits to what they consider 'safe'.


- Mark0

Quoted wrong person.

I too get a slight kick out of folks riding their brakes down mountain passes.

One steep downhill I drive on to go fishing I drop it in manual and shift to 2. Coast most of the way down. This same area we will take the camper often since it’s about 30 minutes away.