Anybody towing with a late model gasser?

CKNSLS wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Those of us who tow understand horsepower and torque. We also understand we don't wish to pay $60,000.00 for a new Ford/Chrysler diesel to get to our destination a little faster, and have a chance of a $10,000.00 repair.

I understand the ENTIRE PICTURE.

You do understand that Dodge does not use the CP4 pump don't you? If you do, why do you say that there is a chance of a $10,000 repair?
:h

Whatever system they use...they have had issues as well. That's my point.

Please show me several CP3's having issues besides fueling errors.

One company uses the CP3 pump and the other is using the CP4 pump but is warranting their fuel systems.

There is only one company using the CP4 pump that is not warranting their fuel systems.
Shame on them. :B

brholt wrote:
Just "to keep the conversation going" you might note the following test:

16% hill climb test

The F250 gas 6.2 "beat" the Ram 2500 Diesel up the hill.

(It would be fun to see how the new Dodge 6.4 with the 8 speed transmission would do). Obviously gearing and transmissions play a big role in these kind of results.

There is no question that generally the diesels can pull more. However, the real question is how adequate are the gas engines. I think the answer is they are getting better and better. Only part of it is the engines themselves but another big part of it is the transmissions. Back in the days of 4 speed transmissions it was harder to keep the "peaky" gas engines in the "sweet" spot. Today's 6 and 8 speed transmissions really make a difference for the gas engines.

2010 is a little old. The Cummins back then was a bit peaky and only had a top torque value of 650 lb-ft. The current Cummins makes a lot more power at lower RPM's with new torque ratings at 800 to 850 lb-ft. I wonder if that test would still bode the same though. But I do agree that having more ratios to select keeps either engine in its sweet spot better.

sacmarata wrote:
Ide say the $10,0000 repair drum has been beat enough. Yes, everyone hears. We get it. Anecdotal evidence says that some guy somewhere somehow had a $10,000 repair not caused by the ma ufacturer but bad fuel. Stand on that mountain you want and throw all yer chips on black while the rest of us look at the perponderance of empirical evidence that supports the FACT that ACROSS THE BOARD diesel is cheaper to own. THATS the entire picture...not heresay about some mystery $10,000 repair.

I am a Business Analyst in my profession.. I am earnestly interested to hear what preponderance of empirical evidence you have that shows ACROSS THE BOARD that diesel is cheaper to own.

Please define the board you are dealing with?

• Are you speaking of owners who kept their diesels for 3,5,7,10,15,20 years?
• Business Owners with fleets
• Data from Farm and Ranch owners
• Data from suburban diesel owners whose trucks are grocery getters 97% of the time

I have never found empirical data showing that diesel is cheaper "across the board" So if it exists please show me.

Links to studies would be great.

Here is a story from Forbes (an authoritative site in academic terms) that really gets into the issue

Forbes

Interesting comment is that in a study of 23 Diesel vehicles only 9 of them proved to have a lower cost of ownership against other vehicles in their class. 8 of these vehicles are consumer models... Mercedes Benz has five of the 8 slots.

Another interesting comment was concerning the F350... the F350 diesel was the ONLY HD truck to make the cut as a cost effective choice. Over five years the F350 Diesel would save a mind boggling $1141.00 over a 6.2 Gas model (no HPFP failure on the consumers dime was calculated though :B)

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Those of us who tow understand horsepower and torque. We also understand we don't wish to pay $60,000.00 for a new Ford/Chrysler diesel to get to our destination a little faster, and have a chance of a $10,000.00 repair.

I understand the ENTIRE PICTURE.

You do understand that Dodge does not use the CP4 pump don't you? If you do, why do you say that there is a chance of a $10,000 repair?
:h

Whatever system they use...they have had issues as well. That's my point.

FishOnOne wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Those of us who tow understand horsepower and torque. We also understand we don't wish to pay $60,000.00 for a new Ford/Chrysler diesel to get to our destination a little faster, and have a chance of a $10,000.00 repair.

I understand the ENTIRE PICTURE.

You do understand that Dodge does not use the CP4 pump don't you? If you do, why do you say that there is a chance of a $10,000 repair?
:h

How about go pump some gasoline into that system with a CP3 and give us a full report! Oh and try to get anyone to cover that with warranty.

We also witnessed a member here who had a Duramax with a CP3 system that was taken out with water and the warranty was voided.

I understand.... It happens :W

I don't expect warranty coverage if the wrong fuel is used.
However I do expect a warning light of some sort if residual water causes an issue. Residual water should not lead to a 10K repair on a brand new truck. Ford should be ashamed of themselves.
If this were the 1st time I heard this story I'd be skeptical of everything.
But at this point Ford is simply not standing behind its warranty.

Blame it on CP3/CP4 or CPO (the robot from Star Wars) it doesn't matter.
The truck is under warranty.. It was not vandalized. The repair should be covered.
I understand mechanical things break, but that is why you buy a new truck with a warranty. A $60K truck should not have a $10K repair bill attached to it.
I feel for the OP. I have nothing at stake and I'm angry about it.

This is not about horsepower,torque,gas or diesel. It's about the manufacturer honoring their warranty when something breaks.
Somehow Ford has convinced themselves they don't have to honor costly repairs. Which is just bean counter B.S.
I have heard good things about the 6.7 but I will think real hard before ever buying a new one since they don't come with a warranty.

From the 2010 HD Shootout at Pickuptrucks.com:

2010 Ram 2500 5.7L Hemi/5 speed auto/4.10 with 383hp/400tq:
10k trailer tow
0-30 level ground 7.7 sec
0-60 level ground 21.0 sec
1/4 mile 23.3 sec @ 64 mph
7% grade with 10 k trailer 33.96 sec @ 45 mph peak speed


2010 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins/6 speed auto/3.73 with 350hp/650tq:
same 10k trailer
0-30 level ground 7.0 sec
0-60 level ground 20.9 sec
1/4 mile 23.0 sec @ 63 mph
7% grade with 10 k trailer 31.65 sec @ 50 mph peak speed

The differences aren't exactly earth shattering.

I realize this info is from 2010, but it's a good illustration where they were tested head to head in the same conditions. It also isn't the 385hp/850tq/Aisin/4.10 diesel tow monster you can get today, but in the gas vs diesel discussion, the gas engines hold their own, though they certainly don't out perform the diesels.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Those of us who tow understand horsepower and torque. We also understand we don't wish to pay $60,000.00 for a new Ford/Chrysler diesel to get to our destination a little faster, and have a chance of a $10,000.00 repair.

I understand the ENTIRE PICTURE.

You do understand that Dodge does not use the CP4 pump don't you? If you do, why do you say that there is a chance of a $10,000 repair?
:h

How about go pump some gasoline into that system with a CP3 and give us a full report! Oh and try to get anyone to cover that with warranty.

We also witnessed a member here who had a Duramax with a CP3 system that was taken out with water and the warranty was voided.

I understand.... It happens :W

Sport45 wrote:

sacmarata wrote:
The Cummins has less than $100 worth of mods and pushes over 300hp. In fact, I have a #10 fuel plate but I could have just tossed the old one. I put 3K gov springs on it but didn't have to do that either, so FOR FREE I can get 300+hp out of the Cummins just by bumping the timing and tossing fuel plate.

I wouldn't say that's a very radical modification...and you can't argue with 324K carefree miles.

If someone wants to spend $60K on a new Diesel, have at it.

The mods almost doubled your HP. It's the 300hp,and being able to develop them at a lower rpm that make you happy with that '94.

that and the triple disk low stall converter with manual lockup that puts it all on the ground :)

Gonna upgrade my valve body so I can lockup in 2nd...THEN I will be bullet proof and safer in more situations.

Ide say the $10,0000 repair drum has been beat enough. Yes, everyone hears. We get it. Anecdotal evidence says that some guy somewhere somehow had a $10,000 repair not caused by the ma ufacturer but bad fuel. Stand on that mountain you want and throw all yer chips on black while the rest of us look at the perponderance of empirical evidence that supports the FACT that ACROSS THE BOARD diesel is cheaper to own. THATS the entire picture...not heresay about some mystery $10,000 repair.

sacmarata wrote:
The Cummins has less than $100 worth of mods and pushes over 300hp. In fact, I have a #10 fuel plate but I could have just tossed the old one. I put 3K gov springs on it but didn't have to do that either, so FOR FREE I can get 300+hp out of the Cummins just by bumping the timing and tossing fuel plate.

I wouldn't say that's a very radical modification...and you can't argue with 324K carefree miles.

If someone wants to spend $60K on a new Diesel, have at it.

The mods almost doubled your HP. It's the 300+hp,and being able to develop them at a lower rpm that make you happy with that '94.

I appreciate that you say the mods increase your horsepower rather than saying they helped your torque. That means you do realize it's horsepower that really matters. :)