Are lithium batteries worth the cost?

time2roll wrote:
Generally the BMS will halt charging at about 0c and halt discharge about -10c.
Of course no reason to get below 5c as you would want to add a heater if going that cold. However your battery would be protected if an unexpected cold snap was to slam down suddenly.

According to BattleBorn you can safely charge LifePo4 cells below 32f (0c), but you must reduce the charge current accordingly. I would prefer the option to reduce/limit charge current when temps get down to say, -3 or -5c, rather than rule out all charging below 32f (0c). That's one of the reasons I'm hoping to find a LifePo4 charge current/rate vs. temperature chart. Of course, to pull this off you need a programmable BMS. A nice advantage of a DIY LifePo4 cell pack.

Generally the BMS will halt charging at about 0c and halt discharge about -10c.
Of course no reason to get below 5c as you would want to add a heater if going that cold. However your battery would be protected if an unexpected cold snap was to slam down suddenly.

FWC wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Keeping on topic and out of Kayteg land....
Anyone have practical experience using them at low temps?
I only know what I’ve read and what I’ve experienced with my Snowbike lifepo4 battery.
Seems this is the one practical Achilles heel of them.

Yes, I have used my lithium pack in low temperatures discharge down to about -15C and charging at ~ -10C. The voltage was definitely lower at low temperatures, and I assume they loose some capacity (I have plenty to spare, so I have not tested this). The loss of capacity with temperature is true of all batteries, and is actually less severe with LiFePO4 vs AGM/FLA:

My concern with LifePo4's would not be so much reduced discharge current capacity at lower temps, but the chance of permanently damaging the cells with *excessive* charge (and discharge) current at or below a given temp. I've always heard you should dramatically reduce charge current (or not even charge at all) below 0c (32f) with LifePo4 cells. I've heard -18c (0f) is a very similar type of cut-off for discharge current.

Did a cursory look for a graph that shows the maximum charge (and discharge) current and temperature relationship for LifePo4, but couldn't find one. Have you seen one?

Interesting. I thought the loss of capacity was similar to the charging loss and not better than lead acid. That’s encouraging

Grit dog wrote:
Keeping on topic and out of Kayteg land....
Anyone have practical experience using them at low temps?
I only know what I’ve read and what I’ve experienced with my Snowbike lifepo4 battery.
Seems this is the one practical Achilles heel of them.

Yes, I have used my lithium pack in low temperatures discharge down to about -15C and charging at ~ -10C. The voltage was definitely lower at low temperatures, and I assume they loose some capacity (I have plenty to spare, so I have not tested this). The loss of capacity with temperature is true of all batteries, and is actually less severe with LiFePO4 vs AGM/FLA:

Have you used it in cool/cold weather yet?

Just our local weather with highs in the 40-50's when I ran my fridge for 11 days off it..I charged it up to 70% when I was done playing with the Engel fridge and haven't used it since because plans keep getting changed for my fishing trip..LOL..

But I must ad,I keep it inside my TC,not in the battery compartment provided so weather is not a concern to me..While using or discharging them in cooler weather is not a problem,it is the charging that is the problem below 32ish..

My last two batteries I bought off line came with several foam exterior protectors for the battery that would make a great insulator for colder weather and making an opening to the battery compartment for inside heat circulation...

For every issue there is a fix...LOL

jaycocreek wrote:
Just for kix I went to Amazon this morning and typed in 100ah lithium battery and just in the first two pages there was 10 Lifepo4 100ah batteries for under $500...That makes them not overly expensive anymore imho and a good reason to make the change if someone has been on the fence on going lithium..

After being on the fence myself for sometime and finally buying one and using it,I could not be more impressed..

Have you used it in cool/cold weather yet?

Is a camper better than a tent??...For some folks a tent can make more sense...

3 tons

Is a Prevost worth the cost?
Well…if all you can focus on is the price per square foot, probably not.

Is a heated bathroom floor in an RV worth the cost?
Not if you base it against a pair of Walmart slippers?

Is a diesel pusher worth the cost?
Not if you base it on miles per gallon only.

Are new tires worth the cost?
Not if you think all is great because your old tires are still round.

Is an RV worth the cost?
Not to someone who is content car camping. They have heat, light, add a bucket and they
have a home built way stronger than your average RV.

Are lithiums worth the cost?
Apparently not. At least that’s what the guys who don’t have them say, and they should know.

Keeping on topic and out of Kayteg land....
Anyone have practical experience using them at low temps?
I only know what I’ve read and what I’ve experienced with my Snowbike lifepo4 battery.
Seems this is the one practical Achilles heel of them.