California to Ban the Sale of New Gasoline Cars by 2035

For shelby and Thermoguy


Quick example, using F150 lightning (115kwh usable) and an avg small EV (about 60k usable)
We will call the avg 80kwh.
V2G, sell back 50% of battery capacity, 40kwh each day (no mention of how you get it full, will jsut assume its magically full when you pullin after work at home and plugger in to sell back some electrons during peak demand)
Gotta leave a "half tank" for the next day to get to work and back home in case your buddy beats you to the free mooch dock charging station at work...

Use LA county, avg 179^6 kWh used daily. So take a LOW avg during peak summer times of 200^6 kWh. (In reality it's higher during peak demand season / hot weather, but I don't want you to think I'm cooking the numbres)

Currently 35,000 EVs in LA county (approx).

To just supplement 1% of the peak daily demand all 35,000 people have to participate (or lets say theres actually double that many EVs and half the people do it, every day there is a demand).
So 1 % of the consumption (when the peak usage rises 20% plus over average(at least) or 5% of the increased demand can be supplied.

So this is 1 out of 20, 5% solutions needed, IF at least half of the EV owners do this (becasue it's somehow financially attractive, although the mooch docking power to sell back and the cost of wearing out your vehicle while going nowhere and getting $.10/kwh (they ain't going to buy it for more than they're chargin you) x 40 kwh = $4/day "profit" for an EV owner that spent an avg of (in my example) only say $60k for a rolling Duracell.

$120/month for a total of 3? months per year (because this makes even less sense when 1 Honda 2000 can run the AC, no need to buy the second one (since you RV types understand generators...))

So each EV owner gets an avg max of $360 for power that "someone" paid $576 for (@ avg $.16 elect rate in LA county). And it was likely you who charged at home or paid even more at the cool Tesla "gas pumps" because your buddy mooch docked the last extension cord at the office.
And the power company solves 5% of it's problem (or say even 20% when the number of cars increases by 400%) while making money off of the backs of EV owners or their employers, if the EV owners get up extra early and beat their buddy to the mooch dock at work.





Even the people who can't do math well will figure out they're losing money by the time that there are 150,000 EVs in LA county!


Show me where this actually adds up for the consumer?

FishOnOne wrote:
Like the title says "California to ban the sales of new gasoline cars by 2035". I can see it now all those used cars being hauled to Mexico will now be hauled to California.

Link

No need to ban it,there wont be any being built by that time. :B

shelbyfv wrote:
Obviously vehicle to grid is not ready for prime time but indications are it will be part of the solution as we move from ICEs. Certainly as a concept it is not "laughable." The issues you mention are not unknown to those involved and they seem optimistic. I think it's a safe bet they are better with math than I.;)

Well obviously...lol. However, you are proving your point about the math thing.....

Since the gas station analogy must have gone straight over your head, I'll try again.
First, read my comment in the solar RV thread in response to the use a DCDC charger to replenish batteries in the solar RV while you're driving. That explains it pretty well. What he suggested was like a small v2g system. Maybe that will make sense to you.

And in the mean time, any antagonist is welcome to set up a nice example and run the numbers...if you can even recognize the main factors that need to be included.
I'd like to be wrong...I really would, however, if I was, I'd have a he!! of a lot more money than Elon Musk, because I'd be performing magic and cashing in.

schlep1967 wrote:
Just saw in the news today that They are shutting down EV chargers in certain cities in China so they can have electric for the households. Just what do you think is going to happen when the Hoover dam stops making electric because there are too many people living off of that pool of water in the desert?

1st mistake is beliving anything our media says about China

2 see Living in China chanel and or Reporterfy media travel.


3 enjoy https://youtu.be/GWZzwLFlDIQ

shelbyfv wrote:
I think it's a safe bet they are better with math than you or I.;)

Speak for yourself...

blt2ski wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
So these electric cars have a range of around 400 miles. I just drove 500 miles from Tucson to Newport Beach in 8 hours. How long would this same trip be in an electric car, considering the time to charge the battery? Would I have to spend the night somewhere enroute?

Not sure where you're getting the 400 mile range ... I'll admit, depends on vehicles batter bank, like how big the fuel tank is. Older sisters BMW is around 175 Mile's in DC, another 75 or so Mile's using the her words, motor cycle engine to sorta kind recharge the batteries before running out of gas.

Then again, this particular vehicle may be designed for local use only, vs some having a longer range ability.

We're too soon IMHO to say electric has come into a real usable reality for most of us. BMW is working fantastic for sister. Me, it would be useless!

Marty

Tesla's website says one of their models is around 400 miles on a charge. The only sure thing I know about these electric cars is that the electricity they use comes primarily from coal or natural gas so what's the benefit to an electric car?

Grit dog wrote:

It’s only “brilliant” if you’re challenged with doing basic math and comprehension of such things like:
When is peak demand and when are people with daily drivers not home or just got home from ( work , hauling the kids to soccer etc).
How much of your charge are you depleting and have to top up before morning.
How much power is each vehicle selling back.
How many Ford Lightning’s will there be in the next ___years in these states
How many will lease or whatever and go through all the hoops to do this.
How much real world gain for folks degrading their vechiles and essentially putting “miles” on the most expensive single component of a very expensive vehicle.
What is the total power consumption of the utility and what real world % will be returned. (Better be good at decimals of 1% to the __th power to even calculate the minuscule amount).

Bottom line it’s a laughable program that I’d bet money was heavily subsidized to promote sales.
Actually laughable is much too mild of a descriptor.
But it does make me realize how many people in this world are woefully gullible and how others are able to craft or take advantage of that.

PS, if you think this is a solution, as you put it, then I apologize for the above comment and want to officially say I was speaking of people hypothetically who are gullible.

Obviously vehicle to grid is not ready for prime time but indications are it will be part of the solution as we move from ICEs. Certainly as a concept it is not "laughable." The issues you mention are not unknown to those involved and they seem optimistic. I think it's a safe bet they are better with math than you or I.;)

But I deal with this literally as a primary function of my job, actually solving problems that people who have a big mouth and opinions and nothing to back it up. Makes for some long days being a solution provider to those pulling the strings with no clue or care

Thermoguy wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
^Think about the validity of that last statement and tell me it’s not just a sales pitch. That’s absolutely ridiculous and of zero benefit to the power company. Seriously.

In other threads, how many people say that the grid can't keep up with the demand, then when a solution to the problem of energy storage says they have a plan to use EV's to sell back to the grid when there is high energy demand, you say it's ridiculous? Really? Its brilliant.

Here's the link:

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/electric-vehicles/these-ford-ev-truck-drivers-will-get-a-discount-for-helping-the-grid

The group benefiting the most is the power distribution companies, like Duke Energy - buying low, selling high!!

It’s only “brilliant” if you’re challenged with doing basic math and comprehension of such things like:
When is peak demand and when are people with daily drivers not home or just got home from ( work , hauling the kids to soccer etc).
How much of your charge are you depleting and have to top up before morning.
How much power is each vehicle selling back.
How many Ford Lightning’s will there be in the next ___years in these states
How many will lease or whatever and go through all the hoops to do this.
How much real world gain for folks degrading their vechiles and essentially putting “miles” on the most expensive single component of a very expensive vehicle.
What is the total power consumption of the utility and what real world % will be returned. (Better be good at decimals of 1% to the __th power to even calculate the minuscule amount).

Bottom line it’s a laughable program that I’d bet money was heavily subsidized to promote sales.
Actually laughable is much too mild of a descriptor.
But it does make me realize how many people in this world are woefully gullible and how others are able to craft or take advantage of that.

PS, if you think this is a solution, as you put it, then I apologize for the above comment and want to officially say I was speaking of people hypothetically who are gullible.