Cleaning up rear rotted 'skirts' on camper...
Literally Drivers side 06/08/14 Passenger Side 07/23/14 Last thing yesterday, swept up our rear driver side skirt or rear wing. After putting it off for way too long- forced to start the...
Forum Discussion
Passenger Side Skirt
Drivers Side
I hadn't planned on doing the passenger side rear wing for a while. Simply tired of working on the camper. But I broke our faucet(Thread), another thread, decided since camper was down waiting for parts, I'd 'knockout' the passenger side skirt.
I allowed myself to think this side might be simpler than the drivers side. Just a blank wall, no cabinet door, plumbing bumpout box, shelf, black tank cover or other stuff interfacing with the skirt. Plus having done the drivers side assumed be less figuring as I go. Wrong.
Though the passenger side was in worse shape visually I had done the drivers side first because I though it was more structural. Wrong again. Our passenger side skirt is actually more structural in that it ties rear wing wall and bottom frame that supports generator.
Where to begin..
Probably where I started would be good- however when I reached this point, camper skirt removed- is where I hit the wall. Zero motivation, other than now the campers open and I have to finish. I was going to add to skirt thread as I went along but even less motivation for that. I didn't want to do the other side-but I REALLY didn't want to do this side. This dogged me as much as the task itself. I also ran into a couple of problems that made this rebuild not as easy as I had thought and would need some thinking, bout out of solving 'cells'.
Fortunately faucets parts arrived (which is why I started this)-switched gears, walking away. Did allow some time for possible solutions to couple of skirt issues to become apparent. Also to eyeball the finished drivers side skirt-ya this will be worth it.
So trudging ahead.
The first issue, that became apparent in removing the passenger side skirt was access.
Leaving upper skirt 1x2s that are attached to campers aluminum frame (from above) isn't an option on the passengers side. Even IF I could remove inner luan panel from frame work, due to lack of access there would be no way to reattach. About an 1" above the visible 1x2 is another 1x2. Attached to frame, is about 3" above the upper filon edge.
Second was the upper lead block is not attached to frame-only stapled to 1x2 frame, and the 1x2 attached to camper is loose. Obvious I need to come up with another way to attach skirt.
Just identifying water source. Some coming in corner trim between jack mounts. Also the filon seam trim wasn't tight on face. But primarily from bottom up I believe. The joint at bumper allowed water to get in-between & behind. The front lower corner radius was cut 3/16 larger than the straight edge cuts, so the edge trim simply didn't reach the inside face of panel. Both impossible top keep caulked.
However a large source was the dealer install generator. They removed the reflector-bored a 1" hole thru filon , inserted a carriage bolt. When installing the clamp and nut it sat away about 1/2" from inside face so obviously the bolt spun. Answer, big blob of caulk. More kudos to the dealer for reinstalling the reflector over the hole, no caulk. So water was freely entering from both sides. Maybe my fault as I never removed the reflector, assuming bolt head was UNDER filon.
At any rate just areas I need to address.
With no other option stripped the skirt up to frame. After removing filon I cut skirt frame up enough to pry out the top attached 1x2. Again surprisingly no rot into camper itself. This area above the generator I discovered few years ago behind the fire ext.
Its open to inside of camper. At the time I shoved some bubble foil as far as I could to help with sound, built a drawer that used about half of space. Now with access I can seal it up, add some more insulation. But I thought I might reach in thru there to reattach the skirt- pulled the drawer- too far, would be possible but...
Instead screwed & glued some 1x1s to inside corners of the box, most of these panels the joints are simply edged screwed into plywood panels. Installed a false wall to divide space.
Back at looking up where top of skirt was attached. Trying to figure out skirt, could leave an access hole in skirt & luan backing, build structure hanging down. Could add small door on exterior face.. but then I noted the rear panel. I could simply cut a hole in the plywood gaining access. Either reinsert cut out piece, make or add door.
And that's what I did.
Cut the top & bottom edges at an angle, at this point unsure if simply reinserting but allowed for possible leaving access panel, this will alleviate possible water problem.
Cut a back up piece of 3/8 ply with smaller hole.
Glued & stapled to back side to replace any removed strength, flange for reattaching the new access panel. But more importantly I now have 5x10 access inside. Reattaching had me stumped.
Now with access for attaching top of skirt was adding something to attach to. Glued & screwed a piece of 2x2 to a 3/4" ply base. (New skirt will insert between the upper filon and 2x2, screwed in thru 2x2). Then glue and screwed the base to lid, screws go thru lid into frame. Added length of 1x2 on back wall for face screwing the skirt in conjunction With the screws that enter from rear wall.
Pre drilled the 2x2 for screwing into skirt which once skirt inserted I can access the back side (thru my new access hole).
Milestone. Having solved this was huge. Priming all the wood stopped to snap this pic. Mostly because it was at this point I realized I was enjoying this effort, the trudge became a brisk walk as I had some kinda of plan and options. Pick up some more foil bubble wrap and aluminum tape to isolate the generator box. Opened up rear tail light and pre run wires for new LED side marker I'm adding. Having access it also now back on the list.
Building the skirt
My intent on this side because its a solid piece verses drivers side which was almost all door, was to build skirt with 1x2 frame as original. Cost a few pounds but decided to just use the marine plywood again for the added integrity of full piece. I briefly thought of cutting holes in ply sheet but didn't think what little I could remove worthwhile.
Plus I still may add a small door, this space would be perfect for say the black garden hoses. Probably not due to cost of door but if I cut panel a door would probably fall out of the sky and it could be any size. Actually larger door would be good weight wise.
First I needed to reshape the filon. As mentioned the entire lower radius was offset. Sanded and removed about 3/16", blended to bottom and front edges. Reshaped the edge trim to match new profile. Using new filon as a pattern, adding 3" to top that will slip up behind upper filon and added 2x2 inside. Rough cut skirt. Measure and fit to camper. Also pre-fit with filon sheet. Its apparent that placement of skirt is going to be critical for the filon profile to match. Glued the luan backing to skirt. Also glued luan backing to the filon sheet. Once dry trimmed sanded out primed back of skirt and edges of both pieces
Laying out locations pre-drilled/counter sunk all the mounting holes. Set on camper drilled all pilot holes. Drilled and counter-bored for elevator bolts attaching to bumper wing.
Wrapped the edges with aluminum tape I then glued on the 12" aluminum flashing Im using for backing. Full length across bottom, side piece overlapping. Used contact cement. Backing is folded over rear edge, tabs folded over front edge.
Dry fit the assembled skirt and filon sheet. Realized I need to add a fishing wire so I can pull light wire in when installed. But nothing left but the attachment.
wow...that was an effort
Installing skirt
No pictures of the process. Racing against setting glue & adhesive, focus was getting in installed. Attaching the skirt I first mopped the back side of upper filon and face of 2x2 with gorilla glue where skirt will insert. Too snug for adhesive. Liberally applied construction adhesive to all mating surfaces/edges. Then mopped front & back faces of skirt with glue that slide in between upper filon and 2x2. Used a small floor jack, sat skirt on it & lifted up, fed the fishing string thru light hole, then lifted with jack in and pressed into place, with a couple of screws to find pilot holes. Checked the holes for bumper mounts, set filon against to double check edge, verified fish string free, inserted dill bits into large holes as alignment pins. Proceeded to screw skirt down, starting inside thru access hole then outside working down.
Whew. Access hole worked well, Had adhesive oozing out of everywhere. Clean up excess, verified holes still in position (not that I could do much now), pull fish string in & out to ensure clear. Sat the filon up-yup good to go. Let it set over night.
Finished cleaning trim and skirt. Used some Barkeepers on the skirt-wow. Looks pretty dang nice. Ive been debating this whole time how to reattach the filon. Decided to use contact cement. And not an easy decision. Mostly because its a one chance deal but once up its done. Clamping which is problem not required, possibly could brace against neighbors garage but its 4' away...
Made a dozen dry runs verify possibility of starting and having panel line up, no fudging into place once its started. Determined its the top butting filon edges that are the most critical. Everything else holes etc I might rework, though I really want bottom & front edges aligned if top angle off and it overlaps would be a mess to trim. Its also the only thing I can visually see its entire length that I am where I need to be. Starting at top left corner, marked start, add several pencil lines as guides, dry fitting I got it aligned several times.
Proceeded to apply contact cement. Both plywood and luan sucked up the cement like water. Allowing 20 minuets of drying time by 3rd coat on both pieces it looked good. A little concerned about too much it might bubble from out-gassing but more concerned not enough it wont bond.
Placed floor jack (it has a small flat plate) under skirt. Sat filon sheet on the jack, with a large screwdriver between bottom and skirt, stuck fish wire thru hole, slowly tilted panel, watching horizontal alignment until the edge just touched. Then watching the vertical gap as memorized, slowly continued rotating bottom until it hit the screw driver. Thinking I should have got the flat prys outs & handy pulled out the screwdriver. Using a small seam roller, starting at middle top I rolled the panel into place. Worked from center down and out while holding side edges out a bit. Used a 6" hard roll continued to roll out. Sat with it for half an hour, stapled top edge, then was constantly moving cardboard shade rest of day.
Next morning I also sat up the temporary shade to keep sun off the filon, installed the edge trim and lower jack bracket. I removed the upper rear side jack bracket to trim the folded over vinyl insert that was stuck under bracket. Cleaned up rust from it and jack. Painted the jack, reinstalled bracket and jack then repainted the bracket, mounts & bolts. Then remount corner edge trim.
Installed new LED side light with 3m auto molding tape. I had primed and caulked the old muffler clamp bolt hole, I covered with the self stick reflector. After a bit Im running bead of caulk around top & sides of it.
But the new skirt is installed. Whoo- whoo.
Lastly is cleaning the camper wing rear wall and caulking everything and coating back side of skirt.
Completely removed all caulking from the wings and back wall and recaulked. On the wing wall and lid I used silicone. Back wall and skirt that are getting coated I used acrylic. Did some touch up painting.
Added a 1x1 piece of aluminum angle to secure the top lead edge of skirt to wing. Doesn't show in picture, cause its black, bedded in construction adhesive and screwed to wing lid & skirt.
Coated back side of skirt and wing wall. I also coated the back side of bumper. Quite visible, and silhouetted the generator, covered in road grime. Rather ugly when off loaded or in the driveway.
Thru the access hole connected the side marker light wires.
The access panel I used some SST screws and just reattached. Drilled back flange of bumper, attached the generator tailpipe hanger.
After doing the drivers side I think other than getting the skirt rebuilt I was more looking forward to seeing this, wing and skirt all clean & spiffy. Anyway ordered some wider seam trim for the filon and this task is done. Should arrive in a few days.
Drivers Side
I hadn't planned on doing the passenger side rear wing for a while. Simply tired of working on the camper. But I broke our faucet(Thread), another thread, decided since camper was down waiting for parts, I'd 'knockout' the passenger side skirt.
I allowed myself to think this side might be simpler than the drivers side. Just a blank wall, no cabinet door, plumbing bumpout box, shelf, black tank cover or other stuff interfacing with the skirt. Plus having done the drivers side assumed be less figuring as I go. Wrong.
Though the passenger side was in worse shape visually I had done the drivers side first because I though it was more structural. Wrong again. Our passenger side skirt is actually more structural in that it ties rear wing wall and bottom frame that supports generator.
Where to begin..
Probably where I started would be good- however when I reached this point, camper skirt removed- is where I hit the wall. Zero motivation, other than now the campers open and I have to finish. I was going to add to skirt thread as I went along but even less motivation for that. I didn't want to do the other side-but I REALLY didn't want to do this side. This dogged me as much as the task itself. I also ran into a couple of problems that made this rebuild not as easy as I had thought and would need some thinking, bout out of solving 'cells'.
Fortunately faucets parts arrived (which is why I started this)-switched gears, walking away. Did allow some time for possible solutions to couple of skirt issues to become apparent. Also to eyeball the finished drivers side skirt-ya this will be worth it.
So trudging ahead.
The first issue, that became apparent in removing the passenger side skirt was access.
Leaving upper skirt 1x2s that are attached to campers aluminum frame (from above) isn't an option on the passengers side. Even IF I could remove inner luan panel from frame work, due to lack of access there would be no way to reattach. About an 1" above the visible 1x2 is another 1x2. Attached to frame, is about 3" above the upper filon edge.
Second was the upper lead block is not attached to frame-only stapled to 1x2 frame, and the 1x2 attached to camper is loose. Obvious I need to come up with another way to attach skirt.
Just identifying water source. Some coming in corner trim between jack mounts. Also the filon seam trim wasn't tight on face. But primarily from bottom up I believe. The joint at bumper allowed water to get in-between & behind. The front lower corner radius was cut 3/16 larger than the straight edge cuts, so the edge trim simply didn't reach the inside face of panel. Both impossible top keep caulked.
However a large source was the dealer install generator. They removed the reflector-bored a 1" hole thru filon , inserted a carriage bolt. When installing the clamp and nut it sat away about 1/2" from inside face so obviously the bolt spun. Answer, big blob of caulk. More kudos to the dealer for reinstalling the reflector over the hole, no caulk. So water was freely entering from both sides. Maybe my fault as I never removed the reflector, assuming bolt head was UNDER filon.
At any rate just areas I need to address.
With no other option stripped the skirt up to frame. After removing filon I cut skirt frame up enough to pry out the top attached 1x2. Again surprisingly no rot into camper itself. This area above the generator I discovered few years ago behind the fire ext.
Its open to inside of camper. At the time I shoved some bubble foil as far as I could to help with sound, built a drawer that used about half of space. Now with access I can seal it up, add some more insulation. But I thought I might reach in thru there to reattach the skirt- pulled the drawer- too far, would be possible but...
Instead screwed & glued some 1x1s to inside corners of the box, most of these panels the joints are simply edged screwed into plywood panels. Installed a false wall to divide space.
Back at looking up where top of skirt was attached. Trying to figure out skirt, could leave an access hole in skirt & luan backing, build structure hanging down. Could add small door on exterior face.. but then I noted the rear panel. I could simply cut a hole in the plywood gaining access. Either reinsert cut out piece, make or add door.
And that's what I did.
Cut the top & bottom edges at an angle, at this point unsure if simply reinserting but allowed for possible leaving access panel, this will alleviate possible water problem.
Cut a back up piece of 3/8 ply with smaller hole.
Glued & stapled to back side to replace any removed strength, flange for reattaching the new access panel. But more importantly I now have 5x10 access inside. Reattaching had me stumped.
Now with access for attaching top of skirt was adding something to attach to. Glued & screwed a piece of 2x2 to a 3/4" ply base. (New skirt will insert between the upper filon and 2x2, screwed in thru 2x2). Then glue and screwed the base to lid, screws go thru lid into frame. Added length of 1x2 on back wall for face screwing the skirt in conjunction With the screws that enter from rear wall.
Pre drilled the 2x2 for screwing into skirt which once skirt inserted I can access the back side (thru my new access hole).
Milestone. Having solved this was huge. Priming all the wood stopped to snap this pic. Mostly because it was at this point I realized I was enjoying this effort, the trudge became a brisk walk as I had some kinda of plan and options. Pick up some more foil bubble wrap and aluminum tape to isolate the generator box. Opened up rear tail light and pre run wires for new LED side marker I'm adding. Having access it also now back on the list.
Building the skirt
My intent on this side because its a solid piece verses drivers side which was almost all door, was to build skirt with 1x2 frame as original. Cost a few pounds but decided to just use the marine plywood again for the added integrity of full piece. I briefly thought of cutting holes in ply sheet but didn't think what little I could remove worthwhile.
Plus I still may add a small door, this space would be perfect for say the black garden hoses. Probably not due to cost of door but if I cut panel a door would probably fall out of the sky and it could be any size. Actually larger door would be good weight wise.
First I needed to reshape the filon. As mentioned the entire lower radius was offset. Sanded and removed about 3/16", blended to bottom and front edges. Reshaped the edge trim to match new profile. Using new filon as a pattern, adding 3" to top that will slip up behind upper filon and added 2x2 inside. Rough cut skirt. Measure and fit to camper. Also pre-fit with filon sheet. Its apparent that placement of skirt is going to be critical for the filon profile to match. Glued the luan backing to skirt. Also glued luan backing to the filon sheet. Once dry trimmed sanded out primed back of skirt and edges of both pieces
Laying out locations pre-drilled/counter sunk all the mounting holes. Set on camper drilled all pilot holes. Drilled and counter-bored for elevator bolts attaching to bumper wing.
Wrapped the edges with aluminum tape I then glued on the 12" aluminum flashing Im using for backing. Full length across bottom, side piece overlapping. Used contact cement. Backing is folded over rear edge, tabs folded over front edge.
Dry fit the assembled skirt and filon sheet. Realized I need to add a fishing wire so I can pull light wire in when installed. But nothing left but the attachment.
wow...that was an effort
Installing skirt
No pictures of the process. Racing against setting glue & adhesive, focus was getting in installed. Attaching the skirt I first mopped the back side of upper filon and face of 2x2 with gorilla glue where skirt will insert. Too snug for adhesive. Liberally applied construction adhesive to all mating surfaces/edges. Then mopped front & back faces of skirt with glue that slide in between upper filon and 2x2. Used a small floor jack, sat skirt on it & lifted up, fed the fishing string thru light hole, then lifted with jack in and pressed into place, with a couple of screws to find pilot holes. Checked the holes for bumper mounts, set filon against to double check edge, verified fish string free, inserted dill bits into large holes as alignment pins. Proceeded to screw skirt down, starting inside thru access hole then outside working down.
Whew. Access hole worked well, Had adhesive oozing out of everywhere. Clean up excess, verified holes still in position (not that I could do much now), pull fish string in & out to ensure clear. Sat the filon up-yup good to go. Let it set over night.
Finished cleaning trim and skirt. Used some Barkeepers on the skirt-wow. Looks pretty dang nice. Ive been debating this whole time how to reattach the filon. Decided to use contact cement. And not an easy decision. Mostly because its a one chance deal but once up its done. Clamping which is problem not required, possibly could brace against neighbors garage but its 4' away...
Made a dozen dry runs verify possibility of starting and having panel line up, no fudging into place once its started. Determined its the top butting filon edges that are the most critical. Everything else holes etc I might rework, though I really want bottom & front edges aligned if top angle off and it overlaps would be a mess to trim. Its also the only thing I can visually see its entire length that I am where I need to be. Starting at top left corner, marked start, add several pencil lines as guides, dry fitting I got it aligned several times.
Proceeded to apply contact cement. Both plywood and luan sucked up the cement like water. Allowing 20 minuets of drying time by 3rd coat on both pieces it looked good. A little concerned about too much it might bubble from out-gassing but more concerned not enough it wont bond.
Placed floor jack (it has a small flat plate) under skirt. Sat filon sheet on the jack, with a large screwdriver between bottom and skirt, stuck fish wire thru hole, slowly tilted panel, watching horizontal alignment until the edge just touched. Then watching the vertical gap as memorized, slowly continued rotating bottom until it hit the screw driver. Thinking I should have got the flat prys outs & handy pulled out the screwdriver. Using a small seam roller, starting at middle top I rolled the panel into place. Worked from center down and out while holding side edges out a bit. Used a 6" hard roll continued to roll out. Sat with it for half an hour, stapled top edge, then was constantly moving cardboard shade rest of day.
Next morning I also sat up the temporary shade to keep sun off the filon, installed the edge trim and lower jack bracket. I removed the upper rear side jack bracket to trim the folded over vinyl insert that was stuck under bracket. Cleaned up rust from it and jack. Painted the jack, reinstalled bracket and jack then repainted the bracket, mounts & bolts. Then remount corner edge trim.
Installed new LED side light with 3m auto molding tape. I had primed and caulked the old muffler clamp bolt hole, I covered with the self stick reflector. After a bit Im running bead of caulk around top & sides of it.
But the new skirt is installed. Whoo- whoo.
Lastly is cleaning the camper wing rear wall and caulking everything and coating back side of skirt.
Completely removed all caulking from the wings and back wall and recaulked. On the wing wall and lid I used silicone. Back wall and skirt that are getting coated I used acrylic. Did some touch up painting.
Added a 1x1 piece of aluminum angle to secure the top lead edge of skirt to wing. Doesn't show in picture, cause its black, bedded in construction adhesive and screwed to wing lid & skirt.
Coated back side of skirt and wing wall. I also coated the back side of bumper. Quite visible, and silhouetted the generator, covered in road grime. Rather ugly when off loaded or in the driveway.
Thru the access hole connected the side marker light wires.
The access panel I used some SST screws and just reattached. Drilled back flange of bumper, attached the generator tailpipe hanger.
After doing the drivers side I think other than getting the skirt rebuilt I was more looking forward to seeing this, wing and skirt all clean & spiffy. Anyway ordered some wider seam trim for the filon and this task is done. Should arrive in a few days.
Fixing what needs fixing, sometimes a chore. Sometimes including something else makes it more-um easy, or motivating. IE adding the LEDS, seeing the jacks wing all spiffy again adds some gratification.
I think been on this & related stuff 7 weeks, the skirts are done. This was bigger task than anticipated, maybe why put off for so long. Since Im here, went ahead and added the additional lower jack brackets to bumper. Last thing is pulling the trim above bumper, reseal. Dont know what it does but noted the caulking is all but gone. Otherwise they get shoved onto the round toit. Another thread
Loadin er up and not noting the condition of wings & needs fixing is actually a pretty big one. Maybe when we get camper situated in some secluded spot- walking back after a short hike, taking off our boots and resting our feets it will be more appreciated.
I did give her a celebratory washing.
