Cold weather and diesel advice

trail-explorer wrote:
One thing I've always wondered about DEF equipped trucks - is it an OK thing to let them sit for months in storage?

I thought DEF had a shelf life.

I've also heard it will crystallize when left in the open... point being, will problems such as this occur with the DEF already circulated in the DEF lines and injectors while the truck sits for winter storage?

Yes, the DEF has a shelf life. Biggest threat is evaporation. The sun can also cause issues, but vehicle tanks are typically protected/black to block that out.

The lines and injector are purged of DEF when the system shuts down. Mostly this is done to protect them from freezing. Some manufacturers have had issues with tank sensor units being damaged by the freeze thaw cycles. (Also talking construction/Ag equipment, not necessarily pickups.)

I work with Ag equipment. The type of equipment that gets used 2 weeks a year. We are finding the best practice is to drain the DEF tank and flush it with distilled water when done for the year.

One thing I've always wondered about DEF equipped trucks - is it an OK thing to let them sit for months in storage?

I thought DEF had a shelf life.

I've also heard it will crystallize when left in the open... point being, will problems such as this occur with the DEF already circulated in the DEF lines and injectors while the truck sits for winter storage?

moresmoke wrote:


I have spent my fair share of time on the side of the road thawing gelled fuel. I hope I am past that point in life.

If the diesel pump has a filter on it as it should, you may get a gallon or so of untreated fuel out of it in extreme cold temperatures, then the filter will plug solid and you will be done.

I went and got a Semi down south last winter. Stopped in Iowa to get fuel, there were 15 pumps with #2 fuel, and 1 with winter blend. Lady at the counter couldn’t believe that I actually wanted to buy winter blend fuel... “Lady, I am headed to Fargo”.



Understanding Cloud Point and CFPP (cold filter plugging point)


Cloud point
All fuels must be blended 5-10 degrees above cloud (fuel temp not air temp)
Significant variation between fuels
Typical #2 cloud pt – 6 – 14 degrees F
Use pipeline spec as baseline

CFPP
Usually within a degree or two of cloud point in an unadditized fuel


Winter Fuel Blend Chart
#2 Diesel Fuel, Ruby Fieldmaster™ & Cenex Roadmaster XL™

Product CFPP* w/o Cold Flow Additive CFPP* With Cold Flow Additive
100% X or D grade +10°F -3°F
90% X or D + 10% #1 +7°F -6°F
80% X or D + 20% #1 +4°F -9°F
70% X or D + 30% #1 +1°F -12°F
60% X or D + 40% #1 -2°F -15°F
50% X or D + 50% #1 -5°F -18°F
40% X or D + 60% #1 -8°F -21°F
30% X or D + 70% #1 -11°F -24°F
20% X or D + 80% #1 -14°F -27°F


Note: This chart is for guideline purposes only. Diesel fuel low temperature characteristics may vary substantially from one source to another and this chart assumes the product meets typical specifications.
*CFPP (Cold Filter Plugging Point) is the temperature at which wax crystals will plug a fuel filter.

WINTER BLENDING WITH BIODIESEL
• Blending of neat biodiesel (B100) with petroleum diesel should occur when both product are 40 degrees F or above.
• Low blends (B2 or B5) typically have very similar (within 0 to 5 degrees) Cloud Point and CFPP characteristics to conventional diesel products and can be treated in a similar fashion #1 blends, Winter Aid III additives, or both.
• Animal fat or higher level soy blends may increase the CFPP of the fuel as much as 5 degrees for every 10% of B100 used.

Impact of #1 Fuel

#1 fuel typically has a very low cloud point
(-40 to -70F)

#1 blended with #2
reduces the cloud point and CFPP of the blend

“Rule of Thumb”
Adding 10%-#1 will decrease the cloud point by approximately 2 degrees

#1 when blended with 5% or greater with biodiesel will have a negative effect on the cloud point

Thanks for posting that. I was going to dig my chart out, and you saved me the trouble. A small amount of #1 will do almost nothing but decrease your mileage, as indicated by the chart.

I personally use Power Service, but I don't know of anyone who has gelled using Howes either. I also don't trust anyones "winter blend" but my own. #1 is quite a but more expensive than #2, so stations don't like to use it if they don't have to.

I hauled the stuff for 17 years, and still have a diesel pickup.

ktmrfs wrote:


as for -35 and it won't come out of the pump, well, likely not true unless it is an above ground tank with untreated fuel. If the tank is below ground it will likely be around 50F year round, and worst case likely never below freezing.

I have spent my fair share of time on the side of the road thawing gelled fuel. I hope I am past that point in life.

If the diesel pump has a filter on it as it should, you may get a gallon or so of untreated fuel out of it in extreme cold temperatures, then the filter will plug solid and you will be done.

I went and got a Semi down south last winter. Stopped in Iowa to get fuel, there were 15 pumps with #2 fuel, and 1 with winter blend. Lady at the counter couldn’t believe that I actually wanted to buy winter blend fuel... “Lady, I am headed to Fargo”.



Understanding Cloud Point and CFPP (cold filter plugging point)


Cloud point
All fuels must be blended 5-10 degrees above cloud (fuel temp not air temp)
Significant variation between fuels
Typical #2 cloud pt – 6 – 14 degrees F
Use pipeline spec as baseline

CFPP
Usually within a degree or two of cloud point in an unadditized fuel


Winter Fuel Blend Chart
#2 Diesel Fuel, Ruby Fieldmaster™ & Cenex Roadmaster XL™

Product CFPP* w/o Cold Flow Additive CFPP* With Cold Flow Additive
100% X or D grade +10°F -3°F
90% X or D + 10% #1 +7°F -6°F
80% X or D + 20% #1 +4°F -9°F
70% X or D + 30% #1 +1°F -12°F
60% X or D + 40% #1 -2°F -15°F
50% X or D + 50% #1 -5°F -18°F
40% X or D + 60% #1 -8°F -21°F
30% X or D + 70% #1 -11°F -24°F
20% X or D + 80% #1 -14°F -27°F


Note: This chart is for guideline purposes only. Diesel fuel low temperature characteristics may vary substantially from one source to another and this chart assumes the product meets typical specifications.
*CFPP (Cold Filter Plugging Point) is the temperature at which wax crystals will plug a fuel filter.

WINTER BLENDING WITH BIODIESEL
• Blending of neat biodiesel (B100) with petroleum diesel should occur when both product are 40 degrees F or above.
• Low blends (B2 or B5) typically have very similar (within 0 to 5 degrees) Cloud Point and CFPP characteristics to conventional diesel products and can be treated in a similar fashion #1 blends, Winter Aid III additives, or both.
• Animal fat or higher level soy blends may increase the CFPP of the fuel as much as 5 degrees for every 10% of B100 used.

Impact of #1 Fuel

#1 fuel typically has a very low cloud point
(-40 to -70F)

#1 blended with #2
reduces the cloud point and CFPP of the blend

“Rule of Thumb”
Adding 10%-#1 will decrease the cloud point by approximately 2 degrees

#1 when blended with 5% or greater with biodiesel will have a negative effect on the cloud point

moresmoke wrote:

shum02 wrote:

As far as I know ALL diesel sold in NA over the winter is Winter Blend.
.

This is most definitely false.

In the upper Midwest US, many fuel stations offer both #1 and #2 diesel in the winter. The #2 is not treated for cold temperatures. Some stations are high class and have blender pumps where you can choose what % of each you want. Most you need to blend your own. If the station only has 1 pump labeled diesel, it is likely winter fuel to some extent.

You don’t have to worry about getting untreated fuel on a day like today. At -35F it simply will not come out of the pump!

as for -35 and it won't come out of the pump, well, likely not true unless it is an above ground tank with untreated fuel. If the tank is below ground it will likely be around 50F year round, and worst case likely never below freezing.

ppine wrote:
It seems odd that we are getting advice for how to operate diesels in cold weather from people that live in Portland and Arizona.

I used to live in Wyoming. We used diesel No. 1. That is the only fuel available in the No Rockies in winter.

maybe in wyoming, but we head to montana and idaho in the winter and #1 diesel is rarely at the pumps. #2 winter blend, even when we've been in the -30F and no problems. Stations in the farm country co ops often do have #1 pumps year round, but often those pumps are over by the off road diesel only.

And #1 is often either recomended for only adding a small % to #2 or strong wording to avoid using at all. #1 has very poor lubricity

I live in MN and have my second diesel. First off much of the "advice" here while coming from well meaning individual, may not necessarily be true. I have not found anywhere that sells straight #1 fuel at the normal pump islands, nor would I ever use it. All of our fuel is blended. The amounts vary for certain months and it has never been a problem for me. My truck is sitting outside right now in minus 25 degree temps. It is not plugged in. If I chose to hit the button on my remote start I have no doubts that it will start. I use no additives. There is always the possibility that the fuel could gel when it's 25 plus below but I don't worry about it. just drive it if you need to and it will be fine.
B.O.

I bought my truck (Ram 2500 Cummins) new in 2013. In January, 2014, we had a brutal cold snap where the temps never got above 0 during the day. The truck started and drove fine to work at 5:30am. But when I went out to go home at 3:30, it wouldn't run. Fuel was gelled, and my new truck got its first ride on a flat bed. I learned a couple things in that experience:

1. The local gas station told me that their fuel is blended to be good at 20 degrees. Below that, I need to run anti-gel to be safe.

2. The white bottle of Power-Service Anti-Gel I was using at the time needs to be double dosed when the temps fall below a certain point. I was going by the table on the back of the bottle and hadn't read the instructions below the table.

3. This probably doesn't apply to you, but in my case, there was TSB for a run of 2013 RAM Trucks that had the fuel filter heater element toggled off in the computer for some reason and RAM was only fixing it after someone had a problem. Mine was one of those trucks.

4. A crew cab long bed truck barely fits on the typical flat bed tow truck.

Since I've been doubling up on the Power Service, I haven't had a fuel gelling problem since then.

A lot of fun “facts” here. Lol.

shum02 wrote:

As far as I know ALL diesel sold in NA over the winter is Winter Blend.
.

This is most definitely false.

In the upper Midwest US, many fuel stations offer both #1 and #2 diesel in the winter. The #2 is not treated for cold temperatures. Some stations are high class and have blender pumps where you can choose what % of each you want. Most you need to blend your own. If the station only has 1 pump labeled diesel, it is likely winter fuel to some extent.

You don’t have to worry about getting untreated fuel on a day like today. At -35F it simply will not come out of the pump!