(Those that also frequent the PUP forum will notice the cut and paste job I did. Turns out that instead of a PUP, we may be better suited to a HTT, so I'm starting a new thread here.)The wife has admitted that if we could increase the level of comfort, she'd be willing to go camping more often. Our current set-up is a large tent with air mattresses. I'll admit, even I wake up stiff and sore.So, we have the room to store a 20-25' foot long trailer on our property, and are budgeting $10-15k. AC and a porta-potty would be nice. Tow vehicle is a 1 ton truck. 3 season camping is our goal, nothing in the winter. We like being out in nature, and don't necessarily want to completely isolate ourselves inside when camping. We also have a 7 year old kid. I'm a big dude, 6' 5", 260lbs.So: where do we start our research? There seems to be a lot of HTT manufacturers and models out there, and it's challenging, to say the least, wading through options.Best brands? Must-have options?Can y'all help a noobie out?

Maybe wait unti the fall Hershey show so that you can get a look at all the different options by manufacturers that are out there and even if new is out of your price range you still might find what to look for in the used market.

forest river or jayco/starcraft and forget the rest.23 foot superslide14" tire minimunlook for atleast 1500lb ccc, ignore the lessor.

I camp weekends Aril thru October, use it for hunting trips, amusement parks, and off the grid parties in the Catskills.I paid $10,000 back in 2011. I added super high wind pupop gizmos, 12 volt HD tv/dvd, memory foam mattress toppers, flojet macerator pump, 25 gallon gray black tank, yamaha 2000w generator, additional fresh water storage, and turned it into an off the grid glamper. Additional mods pending: LED lights, battery banks, converter upgrade. Reason for dragging feet: not too much true off the grid camping in Northeast PA. I live in the Poconos where you can hunt, fish,boat, canoe, ski, hike, gamble, and not have to travel or camp per se. I bring mt bikes, canoe, strollers, ect when I weekend camp.

Jayco is probably the biggest so look over their models, go to their website, look under travel trailers. Gets a bit convoluted at that point as they have hybrids in several model lines. For a start go to the Jay Feather Ultralight and look at the X17Z. What you see is a hybrid with 2 bunks. Look for models with those to be in a hybrid. Find a local dealer or 2, call them and see what models of hybrids, if any, they have on hand and go take a ride. Ignore the model # as an indicator of the length of the unit, check the specs instead. Also check out the Rockwood Roos, they have 80" beds and some very large/nice layouts in the sub 25' length. I don't know if anyone makes a hybrid over 25'! With a 1 ton you can pull any of them, most roomy are the ones with a slide of some sort, makes a big difference. There being 3 of you you can go with a 2 bunk, DO find an 8' wide model and check the bed sizes, many of the smaller trailers have what they call RV queen beds, they are usually 75 or 76" beds and won't work for tall folks. Make sure you look for the 80", also check the interior height, keep in mind the air conditioners hang down a couple inches. Other then that I just made sure that when sitting on the throne I could close the door. Something like the X23B may work, lots of room, under 25', the beds are a tad small at 78". The U dinettes make a big difference too in seating comfort on rainy days. The couches are for the most part fairly cheap. As far as your price range, I have no idea, been a long time since I looked. You can also check out RVdirect.com, probably the best prices around if you don't mind driving to Albany or Buffalo to get your trailer. They carry Rockwood Roo's (Forest River Product) as well as the Jayco's, both good brands. Once you pick out a model you can get a quote from them and use it to dicker locally if you prefer. Many have used rvdirect with good results.If you're not aware, unless you have a diesel, gas mileage is down around 10mpg with any of them.Good Luck

I do not recommend my model to you since you are 6.5.Be sure to check ceiling heights before going to look for used models. In additon, my beds are shorter due to its narrow body design. I tow it with a k2500 burb, and do not feel it back there.

Considering an HTT. Where do I start my research?

PAThwacker
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
ToddD wrote:
PAThwacker wrote:
I camp a lot at Promised Land State Park.

Man, I love that place. Haven't been there in years. Was the only place I could find in the area where I could camp lakeside.

Hahaha, I knew you would! sortof lakeside with a dog to boot.
Look at the 2012 23ss and offer $13k to $15K.
If not mistaken it should have a barreled roof and ducted ac, thus 6.5 approved!
PAThwacker
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
Hybrid vs TT
Hybrid gives maximum floorplan to living area and pushes the beds out.
23ft hybrid turns into a 30ft camper.
Short hybrid easy to manuever/store vs 33ft bunkhouse.
Rain both can leak, hybrid has wet tent ends that need to reopened once home.
Majority of hybrids leak at front beds when towed in the rain. Major growing pains and product enhancements in the last 6 years.
Campfire_Time
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
ToddD wrote:

So: how wet do side bunks get when it rains? Seems that is major shot people with TTs take at people with HTTs. Why buy a HTT over a TT?

Bunk ends on HTTs are vinyl covered canvas so there is no canvas on the outside to get soaked. Unless its pouring out when closing up we just dry them off with a towel. By the time we get home they are usually completely dry. In the few times over the years we packed in the rain its just a matter of opening up the ends and drying them out. Doesn't long at all, certainly not like trying to dry out a tent or pop-up.

You guys seem like perfect candidates for HTTs. You're already used to tents and you'll love the convenience of a fridge and bathroom. That's right, no porta-pottie to fool with! We bought our second HTT last year (both have been Jayco). The first we had for 10 years, an '03 Kiwi 17a. We love them. No leaks, no troubles at all. Concerns about being too low to the ground have rarely been a problem and our X20E is about 4 inches higher than our old HTT. We camp May - Oct. While some folks like to use the pugs on the bunk ends we've never saw the need. We've camped as cold as upper 20s near Yellowstone and as high as 105 in Las Vegas.

IMHO, the reasons TT owners take shots at HTTs is 1) An HTT was their first trailer and they did an impulse buy they were never happy with, or 2) They read a few negative posts on the Internet and think those posts hold true for everyone, or 3) They have to justify to themselves why they bought what they did.

PAThwacker wrote:

Majority of hybrids leak at front beds when towed in the rain. Major growing pains and product enhancements in the last 6 years.

I'm suprised at you as a hybrid owner. These statements are just not accurate. The majority of hybrids do not leak at front beds when towed in the rain. Neither of my units do/did. Some do yes, but the majority? I think not. Does yours? What "growing pains"? I don't understand, please explain. HTTs have been around for many years, since at least the late '90s. Our previous unit was an '03 that we bought new. Never any trouble with it.
bikendan
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
ToddD wrote:
I also see a 2014 23IKSS a few hundred miles away for about 1k more, which is a little confusing. Seems that model has a lot more going for it with dual slide outs and more storage? Wonder why so cheap.

So: how wet do side bunks get when it rains? Seems that is major shot people with TTs take at people with HTTs. Why buy a HTT over a TT?

prices will vary dealer to dealer and what price they paid for the used trade-in 23SS. i have owned a 23SS for over 7 years and still love it. but the 23IKSS is a new model that is becoming very popular. and maybe the dealer wants to get rid of the 2014, since 2015 models are out now.

many new hybrid owners fail to read the canvas documentation in the owner's manual, that states that you have to pre-wet the canvas ends and then let them fully dry out, BEFORE you go camping in it. this allows the seam threads to swell and fill the holes.
we followed procedure and have NEVER had leaky canvas.

and then there's condensation that new owners fail to follow steps to prevent it.

most hybrid owners are former popup owners that want more amenities but still want the canvas experience. they hate the idea of staying in a "shoebox" TT. plus no TT can match a HTT in sleeping capacity. and when you open all the windows in the tent ends, a TT can't compete with that.

it comes down to this: Do you WANT to sleep under canvas? if you don't care one way or the other, DON'T buy a hybrid.
you have to really like that experience to appreciate a hybrid.
too many newbies buy a hybrid without taking the canvas into consideration.

are there some negatives? yes but most hybrid owners are willing to deal with them, to be able to continue the canvas experience.
for us, it still feels like "camping" and doesn't cut us off from the outside, as much as a TT, MH or 5th wheel would.
kvangil
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
Drove our 10-year-old Jayco 23B through a heavy downpour/thunderstorm in MN last week; I was expecting perhaps a little bit of the rain to have seeped in at the front bunk door... Got to our overnight destination, checked the bunk--totally dry. :)
DiskDoctr
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
Lots of good info posted. We have 2004 Starcraft 23srg, just before Jayco bought them, and love it!

Tows nicely, opens up for lots of floor space, couch slide out across from dining table, nice for socializing.

Super high wind PUGs make a huge difference in temp and humidity.

We are converting all over to LEDs. Over half done and keeps converter cooler. Non-ducted ac works well,as does the little addon electric heater loop.

You'll LOVE a larger fride/freezer!
PAThwacker
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
Major product enhancements in the last 6 or more years strictly relating to bunk doors improvements.
bunk closure changes from screw, latch, key, or other.
Continous seal upgrades,
Bunk door supports to cables
Non attached to attached tenting.
Need I continue?
PAThwacker
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
camper upgrades in last six years. shifts from flat roof to barrel roofs, black tank flush, tinted windows, electric awnings, to modern day full LED light packages!
ToddD
Explorer
Jul 08, 2014
Ok, so if I'm looking at this 2012 23SS, what *are* the downsides compared to a TT?

How much work is it to pop open the beds and prepare them? Are high winds a threat (what is a PUG?)? Is the lack of insulation on the canvas sections a load on the HVAC?

Now some generic trailering questions:

What's a CCC?

The campground we go to frequently on the Chesapeake has "quiet time" between 10pm and 7am. That means I can't even run my EU2000. AC won't run off a battery pack, I assume, so I guess I would need to rent a site in the RV area to use the hookups there?

If we didn't care about the AC, can the fridge run off on board batteries, or is it propane powered?

Would a 23SS come with an inverter, or should we be prepared to add one? Brand and size?

Can you just load up bikes and luggage inside for the trip, or should they be properly secured?

More to come, I am sure. Thanks again for all the great advice!
Padlin
Explorer
Jul 09, 2014
ToddD wrote:
Ok, so if I'm looking at this 2012 23SS, what *are* the downsides compared to a TT?
Outside noise, more condensation, setup and takedown.

How much work is it to pop open the beds and prepare them?
Takes us about 10 minutes to setup or take down, and we don't have cables.

Are high winds a threat (what is a PUG?)? Nope, PUG= popup gizmos Popup Gismo's

Is the lack of insulation on the canvas sections a load on the HVAC?
No

Now some generic trailering questions:

What's a CCC?

The campground we go to frequently on the Chesapeake has "quiet time" between 10pm and 7am. That means I can't even run my EU2000. AC won't run off a battery pack, I assume, so I guess I would need to rent a site in the RV area to use the hookups there?
Personal preference, you want to run AC at night you need hookups.

If we didn't care about the AC, can the fridge run off on board batteries, or is it propane powered?
Runs off the propane, but also needs 12v to work for the electronics.

Would a 23SS come with an inverter, or should we be prepared to add one? Brand and size?
Again personal preference, most do not have inverters installed. They come with a converter, inverters are normally aftermarket items

Can you just load up bikes and luggage inside for the trip, or should they be properly secured?
Some do, we put them in the pickup bed.

More to come, I am sure. Thanks again for all the great advice!