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Littlesonny1's avatar
Littlesonny1
Explorer
Aug 22, 2015

Contradicting Tow Vehicle Advise

First off, I'm a newbie here and something of a newbie at RVing so apologies in advance for any transgressions.

A brief history: We started with a used 2004 Caravan Micro-Lite and a 2002 Nissan Pathfinder. We were told by the RV dealer that the Pathfinder was ok for the trailer but being totally ignorant discovered only later that this was totally not true. We did manage a few trips within 30 minutes or so using an Equalizer hitch but it was nervous at best. We later bought a 2010 Pathfinder and life became easier with 4 hour trips to the Gulf over flatland not too much of an issue.

We sold the Caravan a couple of years ago but my wife is selling the business and retiring soon and so recently bought a "used" 27' 2015 Jayco Whitehawk. The trailer had been new and then traded almost immediately for a motorhome. It had been titled for just three weeks and included upgrades and even a $500 cover that was still in the box unused. It was a deal we just couldn't pass up saving about 10 grand off of new. Again we were assured by the dealer that our current Pathfinder was up to the job. We've taken one trip to the Gulf and although there were no incidents, other than someone stealing the hitch pin causing some big time drama, it was obvious the Pathfinder was close to it's limit and we needed something better.

We very recently began looking at a 2012 Tahoe LTZ which we were told by the dealer had a rating of 8500lbs. I'd seen reviews etc. which gave conflicting rating fro, 5500 to 8500lbs but figured the guy knew what he was talking about. I discovered there is an HD Trailering Package option which does give the Tahoe an 8500lbs rating. I asked the salesman specifically about this and he told me the HD package was standard on the LTZ. I discovered last night it is NOT. On this particular vehicle it may or may not have been purchased at as an option but I'm waiting to see the build sheet to confirm or deny. We were down to the last bits of price negotiation and I may well have dodged a serious bullet. Lesson learned.

My question to y'all is some advise on what we should be looking at. There will just be the two of us and our Border Collie. We want to be able to take the trailer anywhere in the country without hesitation. It's suitability to the trailer is paramount. Our dog is sweet as the come but being a BC she runs back and forth in the way back trying to organize the passing cars. Consequently we're not too keen on a crew cab truck with the dog right behind us and would much prefer an SUV. I'd like not to have to go with something as big as a Suburban as our trips will be only occasional in the near future but we may end up going full time at some point.

I've had great luck with forums in the past giving access to good folks with much knowledge and experience. I'm hoping y'all might offer some suggestion that I can create a short list out of.

Thanks in advance.
  • Get the weights and post them here. There are people who can interpret them for you. Someone even has a spreadsheet to do the calculations.

    There is a definite procedure for getting the weights, not covered in that short video. I think you weigh the truck and trailer, then drop the trailer and go back and weigh the truck. But better if one of the experts tells you how to do this.
  • @SouthpawHD - We were looking at the Silvarado 1500 LT with Max Tow which as I understand it is virtually the same as your Sierra. Good to know your experience.

    I lived in Europe for over 25 years before coming back to the States and hadn't really looked at an American made vehicle for a long time. I'm a life long car guy. I still think if one is looking for driving performance in a car the US falls a bit short but when it comes to trucks no one does them better. I was impressed by the overall quality and feature set. I also liked the way the sales methods have changed radically. When the salesman understood our specific needs he brought over his manager who actually had extensive knowledge of towing and travel trailers. They are going to send us the build sheet when they locate the specific vehicle matching our needs. They are also going to loan us a demo for a couple of days so we can hook up the trailer and get a first hand trial of how it works with our unit. The nearest weigh station I can find is about 40 miles away ( thanks agesilaus)but I may well make the drive and weigh things up as suggested here before pulling the trigger.

    Having said that, all these figures and half the alphabet drive my mind loco. I just want to have a combo that I know is safe and well within it's limits so we can get to the fun part, which is after all the point of the exercise.
  • SouthpawHD wrote:
    Not to push you towards this, but I have a GMC Sierra 1500 with max tow, 3.73 gears and this thing pulls my TT very, very well. These new half ton trucks tow and haul better than 3/4 tons from just a few years ago.


    Yeah, and the 3/4 tons are even better than the old 1 tons!
  • Not to push you towards this, but I have a GMC Sierra 1500 with max tow, 3.73 gears and this thing pulls my TT very, very well. These new half ton trucks tow and haul better than 3/4 tons from just a few years ago.
  • Littlesonny1 wrote:
    Thanks guys for the info so far. We went out today and had a look at the Nissan Armada at a dealer and for once found somebody with straight talk. The sales manager actually told us the Armada was not the vehicle for us and to go look at a truck, on the order of a 2500.

    We went down the road to another Chevy dealer and get the full 911 on the Silvarado with the Max Trailer Package.

    We were quite impressed by various features of that vehicle and with the Max package giving 12,000lbs towing are very much leaning in that direction.



    We're in no hurry and have the time to make the right choice. We learned a lot today.

    I've read several times about weighing TT and TV in various setups but I've never been able to understand where. On the rare occasion I see a state weigh station they are always shut.


    That is what I meant by:


    You will find that the MTWR (Max Tow Weight Rating) is bogus, unless
    you have the stripper TV and 'dry' trailer that has a 10% tongue
    weight percentage (it should be 12% to 15% and I prefer heavier)



    Again, unless you purchase the 'curb' (AKA Stripper model with
    *NO* options...other than the tow option) and only weigh 150lbs.
    Plus no other people, no pets, no ice chest...ETC...NOTHING

    *AND* the trailer is a 10% tongue with *****NO***** frontal area
    above the TV's roof line....

    Then this MTWR applies



    Wish I could find that picture of the trucks lined up for their
    testing. They had flat bed trailer with weights up to their advertised
    MTWR (Max Tow Weight Rating)

    You say learning...and said already learned the hard way on some
    of your TV purchases...well...you will continue to learn the hard
    way believing the MTWR applies to any fully optioned TV stuffed
    with people, pets, cargo, etc, etc

    The OEMs and sales folks LOVE that...they get to sell another and
    many times yet another one...
  • Thanks guys for the info so far. We went out today and had a look at the Nissan Armada at a dealer and for once found somebody with straight talk. The sales manager actually told us the Armada was not the vehicle for us and to go look at a truck, on the order of a 2500.

    We went down the road to another Chevy dealer and get the full 911 on the Silvarado with the Max Trailer Package. We were quite impressed by various features of that vehicle and with the Max package giving 12,000lbs towing are very much leaning in that direction. We're in no hurry and have the time to make the right choice. We learned a lot today.

    I've read several times about weighing TT and TV in various setups but I've never been able to understand where. On the rare occasion I see a state weigh station they are always shut.
  • I won't go into weights and such. There is plenty of that on the way. I recommend buying on the notion that this probably won't be your last, largest or heaviest trailer. Overbuy the TV so you won't have to hear what I've heard for so many years. We're getting another trailer?, what kind of truck is next?!!
  • OK to see what any vehicle can tow look at the post in the driver's door. There will be a sticker showing you what it can tow and more importantly what the payload/carry capacity is. You've already learned a hard lesson: salesmen will say anything to get you to sign that contract.

    Now knowing the payload you can find the tongue weight of that trailer. There should be a sticker, often inside one of the kitchen cabinets showing that and the max weight of the trailer. If it doesn't show the tongue weight multiply the max weight by 0.15 (that's 15%) and come up with a number.

    Take that number add the weight of everything you'll carry in the TV: driver, passengers, dog, luggage and anything else plus the weight of your hitch. If that number is more than the payload weight for the TV then it's a no go.

    You can also check to be sure that the max weight of the trailer is comfortably less than the max tow weight of your TV.

    This is all best done by weighing the TV + the TT at a truck scales but this will give you a good ballpark idea of whether it will work or not.
  • Welcome to both this forum and the world of RV'ing

    Many times, salesman are not lying per say, but out of context in most all
    cases.

    Ditto advice on any of these freebie forums...it is worth the price paid. Also
    learn to filter the advice to your needs and opinions. Many forget that newbies
    do NOT have the experience and hard knock schooling to filter well...those
    'sure you can'...'have been doing it for decades'...etc

    I do NOT advise in that regard, but try to provide information
    that the Newbie must find, weight and do the simple math for their
    own Risk Management Decision (AKA...gambling)

    First decide if you believe in the OEM ratings system and numbers...or not

    If not, then academic and do whatever, but know you have taken the OEM(s)
    off the warranty and liability hook and now own them...

    The generic formula is:

    GCWR => TV + Trailer + everything loaded



    This has the OEM dialed in safety margins for longevity, safety
    and to agency mandated MINIMUM performance...biggie for me is
    braking the whole setup

    Of course best to actually weigh everything, ready to go RV'ing,
    axle by axle

    Gather the information for both TV and Trailer: GVWR, F/R GAWR,
    GCWR. Tongue percentage weight of ACTUAL weight is also needed

    You will find that the MTWR (Max Tow Weight Rating) is bogus, unless
    you have the stripper TV and 'dry' trailer that has a 10% tongue
    weight percentage (it should be 12% to 15% and I prefer heavier)

    Here is the graphical representation of how the ratings systems
    looks like, or works. A bit of whimsy and mean it...anything 'can'
    tow, but how well, how long and how safely is my goal...for a half
    ton 'can' tow the Space Shuttle...but for how long...how well and
    how safely???


    howmuchcanitow howmuchshoulditow