rhagfo wrote:bucky wrote:
I'm glad I knocked the snow off my truck yesterday when it got all the way up to 20 degrees. I'm going to go hug my VP44 right now.
Yep, and to think the VP$$ (AKA injection pump), was considered the weak point of the 24V 2nd gen Cummins! The issue was really the weak a** stock fuel pump. Just didn't supply enough pressure and volume to cool the electronics of the VP44.
I guess that is one reason the value of these TV keep gong up, I can replace the Fuel pump (AKA Lift Pump), VP44 and the six injectors for right around $2,000.
bucky wrote:
I'm glad I knocked the snow off my truck yesterday when it got all the way up to 20 degrees. I'm going to go hug my VP44 right now.
Travlingman wrote:Huntindog wrote:NC Hauler wrote:GM frowns on using additives in my manual.Garry&Gayle wrote:
There is a thread on the DieselStop forum about documented HPFP failures, been open for quite some time and there are not that many cases that are documented. I would think from this thread that the CP4 pump grenades on a regular basis but that's not the case; since GM and Ford outsells the Ram by several percentages points we are going to hear about more issues with these trucks. When you rely on fuel lubrication for the pump it just becomes necessary to use a quality fuel additive to increase that lubricity along with proper maintenance plus draining your water separator, don't wait for the idiot light to come on. JMO
Got a 2015 Ford F350 Platinum CCDRW 4X4 on order after giving the Ram considerable test driving
Odd, that contradicts what is said about ULSD by the manufacturers of these vehicles....no additives necessary....now understand, that's not "MY" stand, but I've read it about the GM/Chevy Ram trucks in their owners manuals...It's stated that IF ONE chooses to use an additive, THEN there is a recommendation, I believe for GM it's Stanadyne, (sp?)
BUT again, I don't know about Ford, but when I owned Chevy that took ULSD, no where in my owners manual did it recommend using a fuel additive, in fact, in some manuals, it states, "no fuel additives needed"....same with Ram...it's there for the research....again, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with using a fuel additive, BUT I see no where FROM THE MANUFACTURER that it is HIGHLY recommended, if recommended at all for one to use a fuel additive to help with lubricity to help keep the HFPF in great working condition....just saying, IF it was THAT important to the care of the injectors, fuel pump, etc.....to keep from having warranty issues with the fuel system...you would think it would stick out like a sore thumb in the manufacturers owners manual that fuel additives are a MUST......Haven't seen that.
I would think that when BOSCH was doing R&D on their CP4 HPFP, part of the testing would have to take into consideration the lubricity of the USLD fuel and how it would affect the HPFP over a certain length of time, (at least 3/36)....I mean, they HAVE to cover themselves for any possible failures...So one would think that "IF" a fuel additive HAS to be used to maintain the integrity of the CP4 fuel pump....it would have been passed on to the manufacturer of the engine/manufacturer of the vehicle....but I've NEVER seen a "CAUTION", or a "YOU MUST USE", type of information in the owners manual that states you MUST use a fuel additive to maintain the integrity of our (BOSCH) CP4 fuel pump. Should have been thought out in the manufacturing process of the pump itself.
....and the water in the fuel, yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what can happen in that case..if water get's in, then yeah, big issue, but having owned diesels for almost 14 years, I've never had the first water issue to date...I know one can, but it never happened with any Chevy or Dodge/Ram I've owned...
Again, someone show me where it is RECOMMENDED by the truck manufacturer that a fuel additive is a MUST....it HAS to be used.....I'm talking Ford, GM or Ram, and show where it states it's needed to keep the fuel pump lubed properly to help it last longer than the short time frames we've read about failures in...and for as much as it can cost, one would think the information to use fuel additives would be written on a sheet of paper and announced when vehicle is purchased.
I know about all the other research and all the arguments on how ULSD needs an additive and how low the lubricity is, but again...that's "others" discussing the merits of fuel additives...heck, it's what they sell, what do you expect from them? I'm talking about the actual manufacturer/warranter of the vehicle.....what is THEIR take on it...If it was that important, I would think in an owners manual it would be stated to add a fuel additive "X" amount of times a year, a month, a week, at fill ups etc...not seen it...BUT that is extra money which manufacturers would have to pass onto the consumer....sort of like extra cost of DEF, BUT that isn't anywhere near as costly as adding a fuel additive every other tank fill up or more or less often...to me ONE would be too many.
Interesting thing about Ford. They were (still are?) having the dealers make purchasers sign a paper about the use of their additive (PM22 ?) being mandatory. There were some other things such as mandatory draining of the water separator at very frequent intervals.I have seen these papers posted on the net. It seems that follow thru from the dealers was/is inconsistent on this.
Since you have saw this document, and would know where to find it, please post it for others to see. When I bought my Ford, I never signed this document. I have never met any Ford driver who has signed this document you speak of. It does say in owners manual that one should drain the water separator, did in my Chevy manual too. It also says that if you want to use an additive, they suggest you use PM-22A. My Chevy said they suggested Stanadyne. It doesn't say it is mandatory you have to use PM-22A. On this document you speak about, what does it say is the consequences of not doing this?
Travlingman wrote:Huntindog wrote:NC Hauler wrote:GM frowns on using additives in my manual.Garry&Gayle wrote:
There is a thread on the DieselStop forum about documented HPFP failures, been open for quite some time and there are not that many cases that are documented. I would think from this thread that the CP4 pump grenades on a regular basis but that's not the case; since GM and Ford outsells the Ram by several percentages points we are going to hear about more issues with these trucks. When you rely on fuel lubrication for the pump it just becomes necessary to use a quality fuel additive to increase that lubricity along with proper maintenance plus draining your water separator, don't wait for the idiot light to come on. JMO
Got a 2015 Ford F350 Platinum CCDRW 4X4 on order after giving the Ram considerable test driving
Odd, that contradicts what is said about ULSD by the manufacturers of these vehicles....no additives necessary....now understand, that's not "MY" stand, but I've read it about the GM/Chevy Ram trucks in their owners manuals...It's stated that IF ONE chooses to use an additive, THEN there is a recommendation, I believe for GM it's Stanadyne, (sp?)
BUT again, I don't know about Ford, but when I owned Chevy that took ULSD, no where in my owners manual did it recommend using a fuel additive, in fact, in some manuals, it states, "no fuel additives needed"....same with Ram...it's there for the research....again, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with using a fuel additive, BUT I see no where FROM THE MANUFACTURER that it is HIGHLY recommended, if recommended at all for one to use a fuel additive to help with lubricity to help keep the HFPF in great working condition....just saying, IF it was THAT important to the care of the injectors, fuel pump, etc.....to keep from having warranty issues with the fuel system...you would think it would stick out like a sore thumb in the manufacturers owners manual that fuel additives are a MUST......Haven't seen that.
I would think that when BOSCH was doing R&D on their CP4 HPFP, part of the testing would have to take into consideration the lubricity of the USLD fuel and how it would affect the HPFP over a certain length of time, (at least 3/36)....I mean, they HAVE to cover themselves for any possible failures...So one would think that "IF" a fuel additive HAS to be used to maintain the integrity of the CP4 fuel pump....it would have been passed on to the manufacturer of the engine/manufacturer of the vehicle....but I've NEVER seen a "CAUTION", or a "YOU MUST USE", type of information in the owners manual that states you MUST use a fuel additive to maintain the integrity of our (BOSCH) CP4 fuel pump. Should have been thought out in the manufacturing process of the pump itself.
....and the water in the fuel, yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what can happen in that case..if water get's in, then yeah, big issue, but having owned diesels for almost 14 years, I've never had the first water issue to date...I know one can, but it never happened with any Chevy or Dodge/Ram I've owned...
Again, someone show me where it is RECOMMENDED by the truck manufacturer that a fuel additive is a MUST....it HAS to be used.....I'm talking Ford, GM or Ram, and show where it states it's needed to keep the fuel pump lubed properly to help it last longer than the short time frames we've read about failures in...and for as much as it can cost, one would think the information to use fuel additives would be written on a sheet of paper and announced when vehicle is purchased.
I know about all the other research and all the arguments on how ULSD needs an additive and how low the lubricity is, but again...that's "others" discussing the merits of fuel additives...heck, it's what they sell, what do you expect from them? I'm talking about the actual manufacturer/warranter of the vehicle.....what is THEIR take on it...If it was that important, I would think in an owners manual it would be stated to add a fuel additive "X" amount of times a year, a month, a week, at fill ups etc...not seen it...BUT that is extra money which manufacturers would have to pass onto the consumer....sort of like extra cost of DEF, BUT that isn't anywhere near as costly as adding a fuel additive every other tank fill up or more or less often...to me ONE would be too many.
Interesting thing about Ford. They were (still are?) having the dealers make purchasers sign a paper about the use of their additive (PM22 ?) being mandatory. There were some other things such as mandatory draining of the water separator at very frequent intervals.I have seen these papers posted on the net. It seems that follow thru from the dealers was/is inconsistent on this.
Since you have saw this document, and would know where to find it, please post it for others to see. When I bought my Ford, I never signed this document. I have never met any Ford driver who has signed this document you speak of. It does say in owners manual that one should drain the water separator, did in my Chevy manual too. It also says that if you want to use an additive, they suggest you use PM-22A. My Chevy said they suggested Stanadyne. It doesn't say it is mandatory you have to use PM-22A. On this document you speak about, what does it say is the consequences of not doing this?
Huntindog wrote:NC Hauler wrote:GM frowns on using additives in my manual.Garry&Gayle wrote:
There is a thread on the DieselStop forum about documented HPFP failures, been open for quite some time and there are not that many cases that are documented. I would think from this thread that the CP4 pump grenades on a regular basis but that's not the case; since GM and Ford outsells the Ram by several percentages points we are going to hear about more issues with these trucks. When you rely on fuel lubrication for the pump it just becomes necessary to use a quality fuel additive to increase that lubricity along with proper maintenance plus draining your water separator, don't wait for the idiot light to come on. JMO
Got a 2015 Ford F350 Platinum CCDRW 4X4 on order after giving the Ram considerable test driving
Odd, that contradicts what is said about ULSD by the manufacturers of these vehicles....no additives necessary....now understand, that's not "MY" stand, but I've read it about the GM/Chevy Ram trucks in their owners manuals...It's stated that IF ONE chooses to use an additive, THEN there is a recommendation, I believe for GM it's Stanadyne, (sp?)
BUT again, I don't know about Ford, but when I owned Chevy that took ULSD, no where in my owners manual did it recommend using a fuel additive, in fact, in some manuals, it states, "no fuel additives needed"....same with Ram...it's there for the research....again, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with using a fuel additive, BUT I see no where FROM THE MANUFACTURER that it is HIGHLY recommended, if recommended at all for one to use a fuel additive to help with lubricity to help keep the HFPF in great working condition....just saying, IF it was THAT important to the care of the injectors, fuel pump, etc.....to keep from having warranty issues with the fuel system...you would think it would stick out like a sore thumb in the manufacturers owners manual that fuel additives are a MUST......Haven't seen that.
I would think that when BOSCH was doing R&D on their CP4 HPFP, part of the testing would have to take into consideration the lubricity of the USLD fuel and how it would affect the HPFP over a certain length of time, (at least 3/36)....I mean, they HAVE to cover themselves for any possible failures...So one would think that "IF" a fuel additive HAS to be used to maintain the integrity of the CP4 fuel pump....it would have been passed on to the manufacturer of the engine/manufacturer of the vehicle....but I've NEVER seen a "CAUTION", or a "YOU MUST USE", type of information in the owners manual that states you MUST use a fuel additive to maintain the integrity of our (BOSCH) CP4 fuel pump. Should have been thought out in the manufacturing process of the pump itself.
....and the water in the fuel, yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what can happen in that case..if water get's in, then yeah, big issue, but having owned diesels for almost 14 years, I've never had the first water issue to date...I know one can, but it never happened with any Chevy or Dodge/Ram I've owned...
Again, someone show me where it is RECOMMENDED by the truck manufacturer that a fuel additive is a MUST....it HAS to be used.....I'm talking Ford, GM or Ram, and show where it states it's needed to keep the fuel pump lubed properly to help it last longer than the short time frames we've read about failures in...and for as much as it can cost, one would think the information to use fuel additives would be written on a sheet of paper and announced when vehicle is purchased.
I know about all the other research and all the arguments on how ULSD needs an additive and how low the lubricity is, but again...that's "others" discussing the merits of fuel additives...heck, it's what they sell, what do you expect from them? I'm talking about the actual manufacturer/warranter of the vehicle.....what is THEIR take on it...If it was that important, I would think in an owners manual it would be stated to add a fuel additive "X" amount of times a year, a month, a week, at fill ups etc...not seen it...BUT that is extra money which manufacturers would have to pass onto the consumer....sort of like extra cost of DEF, BUT that isn't anywhere near as costly as adding a fuel additive every other tank fill up or more or less often...to me ONE would be too many.
Interesting thing about Ford. They were (still are?) having the dealers make purchasers sign a paper about the use of their additive (PM22 ?) being mandatory. There were some other things such as mandatory draining of the water separator at very frequent intervals.I have seen these papers posted on the net. It seems that follow thru from the dealers was/is inconsistent on this.
Garry&Gayle wrote:
I am referring to the known fact that ULSD is lacking in sufficient lubrication so I feel the use an additive to increase lubrication is a good idea, and as I stated JMO
NC Hauler wrote:GM frowns on using additives in my manual.Garry&Gayle wrote:
There is a thread on the DieselStop forum about documented HPFP failures, been open for quite some time and there are not that many cases that are documented. I would think from this thread that the CP4 pump grenades on a regular basis but that's not the case; since GM and Ford outsells the Ram by several percentages points we are going to hear about more issues with these trucks. When you rely on fuel lubrication for the pump it just becomes necessary to use a quality fuel additive to increase that lubricity along with proper maintenance plus draining your water separator, don't wait for the idiot light to come on. JMO
Got a 2015 Ford F350 Platinum CCDRW 4X4 on order after giving the Ram considerable test driving
Odd, that contradicts what is said about ULSD by the manufacturers of these vehicles....no additives necessary....now understand, that's not "MY" stand, but I've read it about the GM/Chevy Ram trucks in their owners manuals...It's stated that IF ONE chooses to use an additive, THEN there is a recommendation, I believe for GM it's Stanadyne, (sp?)
BUT again, I don't know about Ford, but when I owned Chevy that took ULSD, no where in my owners manual did it recommend using a fuel additive, in fact, in some manuals, it states, "no fuel additives needed"....same with Ram...it's there for the research....again, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with using a fuel additive, BUT I see no where FROM THE MANUFACTURER that it is HIGHLY recommended, if recommended at all for one to use a fuel additive to help with lubricity to help keep the HFPF in great working condition....just saying, IF it was THAT important to the care of the injectors, fuel pump, etc.....to keep from having warranty issues with the fuel system...you would think it would stick out like a sore thumb in the manufacturers owners manual that fuel additives are a MUST......Haven't seen that.
I would think that when BOSCH was doing R&D on their CP4 HPFP, part of the testing would have to take into consideration the lubricity of the USLD fuel and how it would affect the HPFP over a certain length of time, (at least 3/36)....I mean, they HAVE to cover themselves for any possible failures...So one would think that "IF" a fuel additive HAS to be used to maintain the integrity of the CP4 fuel pump....it would have been passed on to the manufacturer of the engine/manufacturer of the vehicle....but I've NEVER seen a "CAUTION", or a "YOU MUST USE", type of information in the owners manual that states you MUST use a fuel additive to maintain the integrity of our (BOSCH) CP4 fuel pump. Should have been thought out in the manufacturing process of the pump itself.
....and the water in the fuel, yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what can happen in that case..if water get's in, then yeah, big issue, but having owned diesels for almost 14 years, I've never had the first water issue to date...I know one can, but it never happened with any Chevy or Dodge/Ram I've owned...
Again, someone show me where it is RECOMMENDED by the truck manufacturer that a fuel additive is a MUST....it HAS to be used.....I'm talking Ford, GM or Ram, and show where it states it's needed to keep the fuel pump lubed properly to help it last longer than the short time frames we've read about failures in...and for as much as it can cost, one would think the information to use fuel additives would be written on a sheet of paper and announced when vehicle is purchased.
I know about all the other research and all the arguments on how ULSD needs an additive and how low the lubricity is, but again...that's "others" discussing the merits of fuel additives...heck, it's what they sell, what do you expect from them? I'm talking about the actual manufacturer/warranter of the vehicle.....what is THEIR take on it...If it was that important, I would think in an owners manual it would be stated to add a fuel additive "X" amount of times a year, a month, a week, at fill ups etc...not seen it...BUT that is extra money which manufacturers would have to pass onto the consumer....sort of like extra cost of DEF, BUT that isn't anywhere near as costly as adding a fuel additive every other tank fill up or more or less often...to me ONE would be too many.
