Define ''All Season'' campers please

At some point camping crosses into what would be better termed as "EXTREME CAMPING".
Yes? No?

An "all season" camper would be fairly misused in an Extreme Camping environment.

mockturtle wrote:
'All season camper' might mean comfortable in San Diego but not necessarily in WA. Or, if you're willing to travel with the seasons. ;)

I agree with your assessment. Sort of like the original Volkswagens. The heater worked great in the summer, and the AC worked better in the winter. :B

I have been caught in the single digit temps, with one night 1 degree below zero and have full tanks this past week, without any problems. I have learned over a period of time, how to prepare and live in very cold temperatures, and not be plugged into shore power. Without knowing more about your technique and whether you have done any additional winterizing of your rig, I can only give you a few tips.

1. Critical freeze areas, install remote thermometers and put the receiver in a central location. I have one in my valve bay, after freezing my Black/Gray valves, and placed the receiver at the window by the kitchen sink.
2. Continue to keep the cabinet doors open, as air movement is the key.
3. Make sure auxiliary heater (Wave or Space heaters) don't keep furnace from running and heating the bays and hidden areas during times temperatures are below 20 degrees.
4. Run Water Heater a couple of times a day, or drain it and install bypass.
5. After running water, and pump off, open all faucets to relieve pressure off water lines to allow expansion in water lines. Also remove Shower head to release Water tension within in it.
6. Don't run your furnace at lower temperatures, to conserve propane. Keep it turned up.
7. Have a backup plan, like a battery pack, to get generator started when your house batteries are too discharged to start it.

Have fun! Winter can be a wonderful time, to enjoy adventures in your Truck Camper.

b

We use windshield washer fluid to flush the toilet opposed to water.

You might have to use the hair dryer on the dump valve when you dump.

Yeah...it's a tough call. There is a difference between cold and REAL FRICKIN COLD...when highs never get above freezing, it's a different game, and depending on how diligent you want to be with running the furnace, it may be easier to just do with out the water.

One of the challenges for us is we are camping in a ski area parking lot in winter, so no hookups.

Winter camping takes some planning...and depending on how cold it gets...it may be easier to just shut down the plumbing.

B

billtex wrote:
As bob noted…using the H20 system when it gets REAL cold is the challenge. In the past we have restricted our winter camping to the shoulder season in New England…usually end of Feb/ early March. We try to plan our ski trips so day time temps get above freezing (32 deg F), this strategy seems to forgive a lot of sins. If something freezes up during the night (which can still be single digits at night), it usually thaws during the day while we are out skiing. The only area I have found frozen was around the dump valve, which on our last camper was external.

We are now considering using the new camper right through the heart of winter this year. That means temps like you just saw. It could go weeks without temps reaching above 32 deg F in New England, and that is a whole new challenge…IF you want to use H20.
We may decide not to use the H20 system, which really simplifies the freezing issue…

To respond to your question; 4 season camper…it depends. You can stay warm enough, and with a little extra insulation you can minimize propane use. Fans, opening cabinet doors, bath doors can all help. The real challenge is the H20 system. If that freezes, and you have no way to thaw in a short time…you may get some plumbing damage…and that could suck bad.

To do it over everything the same, say next weekend I would likely just skip loading water in the H2O system....would just bring several jugs of water for drinking and some for flushing the toilet. And put a bunch of antifreeze in the black tank.

Would not load any freshwater into the tank. That would solve a lot of it.

But really should I have to do that for 5 degrees in an All Season Camper with Arctic in the name? And we'd likely just leave the furnace at an even higher setting... This was a first for us at this temp. We've camped many times where it freezes at night but not 5-15 degrees for the whole weekend.

As bob noted…using the H20 system when it gets REAL cold is the challenge. In the past we have restricted our winter camping to the shoulder season in New England…usually end of Feb/ early March. We try to plan our ski trips so day time temps get above freezing (32 deg F), this strategy seems to forgive a lot of sins. If something freezes up during the night (which can still be single digits at night), it usually thaws during the day while we are out skiing. The only area I have found frozen was around the dump valve, which on our last camper was external.

We are now considering using the new camper right through the heart of winter this year. That means temps like you just saw. It could go weeks without temps reaching above 32 deg F in New England, and that is a whole new challenge…IF you want to use H20.
We may decide not to use the H20 system, which really simplifies the freezing issue…

To respond to your question; 4 season camper…it depends. You can stay warm enough, and with a little extra insulation you can minimize propane use. Fans, opening cabinet doors, bath doors can all help. The real challenge is the H20 system. If that freezes, and you have no way to thaw in a short time…you may get some plumbing damage…and that could suck bad.

I can easily survive those temps with my unit and it isn't a 4-seasons camper by any means. Also did colder temps than that before in a 1969 Franklin while boondocking for four days. So I don't think you are asking too much from your camper.

A couple things to check that will probably make things better.

1) Make sure you either have double pane windows, use foam board in the windows, or make you own second pane. It is amazing the difference a second pane makes.

2) Make sure none of the water lines touch the outside walls. The direct contact transmits tremendous amounts more cold. Even a 1/4" separation is sufficient.

3) Seal up anything that creates a draft you can feel. Just feeling the cold isn't enough to worry about.

4)Make sure you basement duct isn't collapsed of pinched. I've seen this on a number of units. Odds are this was your main problem.

5)Add carpet to the floor. If you can afford it, add padding as well. Adds insulation and comfort.

6)Leave the camper on the truck. Amazing how much wind and insulation the bed creates.

2BLAZERS wrote:
And with the furnace on the whole time, there is a fan that moves warm air into the basement 24/7. I did check and it was working...

I installed a second ceramic heater and fan in the basement area which I will use if plugged into shore power. The fan shoots the air down towards the holding tanks. I also wired my factory basement fan to run all the time if need be, so its circulating air into the basement even when the furnace is not running (I have electric baseboard heat in addition to the TC furnace and a Wave 3 heater). I feel Im pretty well set up for cold weather camping but I also admit Ive never been out in 5 degree weather (yet).

Having water in any rv below zero becomes iffy . We run into 'cold spots' where a freeze can occur. Each rv is different , it all depends how the drains and water lines run. Each unit must be addressed individually.

What I found when I owned an AF .
You are better off keeping the slide closed at night and just using the furnace, due to the design of the basement heating system. There is also a fan mod you can make to improve heat flow.

You can simply move the fan closer to the edge of the wood frame.
(under the bath, remove the round plastic vent and look at the fan) As you see, the OEM position is recessed a bit. After you move it closer to the round plastic vent opening, the warm air-flow improves.
The improved fan mod below the bathroom door should work well enough to improve heat flow under the cabinets without opening the need to open doors.

If you would test the air flow at the return outlet (kitchen sink area) before and after the mod, you will see how the air flow increases. Simply use a clicky lighter and look at the flame. It bend at a 90' angle after the mod.

As stated by other cold temp posters, there are going to be some hit n miss spots in every camper and it might take a few trips to weed it all out.

***Something you should do when camping in cold weather is, cover/insulate the regulator changeover valve on the propane tanks. If that diaphragm cracks , its not going to work , gas flow stops .
It can sometimes just freeze and all you have to do is thaw it using a hairdryer.
Since I started to insulate it , I've not had any problems and I use my tc furnace down to -30F .

There are a lot of good 'insulation posts' out there. The 'projects' section will show you some. Here is one .

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24714539/print/true.cfm