Diesel Brothers

ShinerBock wrote:

Lantley wrote:

If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

Or unless you pay to have the rules changed so you are not commuting a crime even though you are spewing more pollution in the air than ten thousand diesel bothers while all the tree huggers worship you. You don't have to follow rules that you pay not to exist.

I agree you can pay to have laws enacted or eliminated. Goes on every day in legislatures all across the country. There are these guys called Lobbyist, they get paid lots of money by rich guys like Musk.Lobbyist also get big bucks from corporate America.
K street in Washington D.C. is about 50 miles from me. Lobbyist have set up shop there an attempt to manipulate Congress on behalf of some cause everyday!For better or worst that's how the game is played.
Elon is just using his deep pockets to accomplish his goals.
Anyone with deep enough pockets can hire a lobbyist or two to influence the law.
None of this makes it legal to delete emissions on diesel pick ups.

Lantley wrote:

If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

Or unless you pay to have the rules changed so you are not commuting a crime even though you are spewing more pollution in the air than ten thousand diesel bothers while all the tree huggers worship you. You don't have to follow rules that you pay not to exist.

time2roll wrote:
I am not familiar that Elon had any laws changed for the Gulfstream or the rockets.
Any link to this?
Maybe the diesel boys should get into rocketry.

Only law I know of Elon is trying to change are the state laws that prohibit selling Tesla vehicles direct to consumers in about half the states.

There are no links because SpaceX and other such companies were able to keep emissions regulations out of the Commercial Space Launch Act other legislation. The only way that I know that SpaceX lobbied against emissions regulations in this and other bills is because I receive email newsletters from my Senator, Ted Cruz, who is the chairman of the senate Space subcommittee. It would end up costing them lots of money because the fuel that NASA uses and has hardly any emissions cost a lot of money.

I wonder if Elon has solar on his houses.
Turtle, I had a 40 year career in Business Aviation and your fuel burn numbers are correct. There actually has been huge amounts of work on low smoke/ low nox combustors for years. Lots of work on the fuel nozzle side as well. There actually are mandated targets for emissions just like noise.
I will say having been around many owners that the jets become a car, just hop in and let’s go.
One of favorites, we flew the owners from the Bay Area to Tahoe for the weekend, brought the plane home and just closing the hangar when I get a call that housekeeper is bringing the wife’s favorite pair of jeans out to the airport and we need to fly them up. Off we went.

ShinerBock wrote:

time2roll wrote:
So the Diesel Brothers are doing something illegal and Elon is not.
Are you insane?

As I said before, you don't break any laws if you have enough money and power to change them to fit your needs. Why is it that blowing millions of tons of emissions in the air with kerosene rockets(even though cleaner but costlier technology is available) is legal, but having a deleted diesel that only emits less than .8 g/bhp-hr more in NOx and 1.8 g/bhp-hr in PM is? Because people like Elon have the money to change the rules so that they can make more money and do as they please while us common folk don't.

This is like Apples overseas tax havens that keep billions of dollars earned in the US from going to pay US taxes. They have enough money to lobby for tax loopholes or make the fines so small that it is insignificant the amount earned doing the crime while small business don't.

There Maybe some truth to that. But it's bigger than emissions.
In America you get as much justice or political clout as you can afford.
Commit a crime. Any crime from jay walking to disabling emission equipment, to armed robbery. If you can afford a high powered expensive legal team you will find/receive more justice than if you
are being represented by the public defender.
If you're OJ you can beat a murder charge, if you the average guy you can't even beat a speeding ticket in rural Va.(I know 1st hand)
My point is there are rules and regulation for diesel emissions that are beneficial to the population at large and have been successful in clearing the air. Compare Beijing to LA and you can see the difference. Compare LA now to LA 30 years ago and you can see the difference. I'm not saying I love diesel emissions rules but from a layman's perspective they appear to be working.
None of this has anything to do with launching rockets, which has it own set of regulations. This has nothing to do with locomotive engines, jet plane turbines, or ocean going ships.
Trying to put all these pieces together as though we can't regulate pick up trucks if we don't regulate rocket launching is silly.
Furthermore if Diesel bros. had deeper pockets, yes they might receive the Elon Musk treatment. But again so might Shinerbock, Time2roll and Lantley! LOL
But since we don't we better keep are DEF tanks full and in working order.
Of course if we could afford an OJ style legal team we could challenge the emission rules and throw million of $$$ at the EPA to try and prove our point.
At the end of the day 1%'ers like Musk will always play by a different set of rules because they can afford to.
They can afford pricey lawyers and Gulf stream Jets too!
The playing field is not even or level in terms of finance or influence.
Keep in mind you need money to burn/waste to play in this arena. Criss crossing the country in a private jet is only a rational thing to do if you can afford it. Elon can afford it. We can't!
Regular guys who post on RV.net are basically forced to follow (not necessarily like them) the rules as written.1%'ers like Elon can afford to re write the rules and they do. Nothing new or novel there! LOL
If you choose not to follow the rules you will suffer the penalty.
As "Barreta" eloquently said. "Don't due the crime if you can't do the time!" Unless of course you can afford a high powered/priced lawyer.

It is about pollution. But first would be to comply with the law.

I will crush my truck when a truck EV has the real towing range I need. Until then it passes the CA smog inspection every two years. Building a new truck to get 10% better fuel efficiency is not exactly emission free either. Besides I only drive the old F150 a few thousand miles per year.

And again this thread is about the Diesel Brothers. I have no diesel.
Enjoy your hybrid.

time2roll wrote:
So the Diesel Brothers are doing something illegal and Elon is not.
Are you insane?

But I thought it was about pollution and saving the planet?

Guess not. :R

As bad as a guy that owns a 25 YO diesel complaining about the amount of pollution a person that owns a deleted 07 diesel puts out.

If it's about pollution you need to take that old dinosaur to the grave yard and crush it.

We now know it's not about the pollution. Thanks for the reminder. :R

I am not familiar that Elon had any laws changed for the Gulfstream or the rockets.
Any link to this?
Maybe the diesel boys should get into rocketry.

Only law I know of Elon is trying to change are the state laws that prohibit selling Tesla vehicles direct to consumers in about half the states.

time2roll wrote:
So the Diesel Brothers are doing something illegal and Elon is not.
Are you insane?

As I said before, you don't break any laws if you have enough money and power to change them to fit your needs. Why is it that blowing millions of tons of emissions in the air with kerosene rockets(even though cleaner but costlier technology is available) is legal, but having a deleted diesel that only emits less than .8 g/bhp-hr more in NOx and 1.8 g/bhp-hr in PM is? Because people like Elon have the money to change the rules so that they can make/save more money and do as they please while us common folk don't.

This is like Apples overseas tax havens that keep hundreds of billions of dollars earned in the US from going to pay US taxes. They have enough money to lobby for tax loopholes or make the fines so small that it is insignificant the amount earned doing the crime while small business don't.

Now, Now, calm down. High BP causes coronary thrombosis.
Me, I don't care if Elon has a Gulfstream or the Diesel Weasel Brothers like to pollute. Don't care a bit actually.

However Elon isn't breaking any Federal Laws, the Diesel Bros. are. They got popped, oh well life goes on.

Neither of them care about you or your BP.