Diesel engines why not more available in smaller vehicles ?

FishOnOne wrote:
The EPA has become a business and business has become too good.

In addition I recently read that Mercedes Benz has announced they're pulling the plug on providing diesel car to North America.

Also several major European city's announced plans to phase diesel out and switch to gasoline.

The EPA is a trillion-dollar self-licking ice cream cone. It exists to exist, like all bureaucracies.

Bedlam wrote:
I have relatives in southern section of Portugal. I have not been there yet.

Its the only central southern European country we have not visited. Should be interesting. I am reasonably fluent in Spanish French and German but am limited to hello, goodbye, please and thank you in Portuguese. . According to our Spanish friends many people in Portugal are reasonably comfortable in English and French due to a 1000 years of trading etc and of course many can get along in Spanish. We are not too worried. We are there for about 3 weeks and a bit. There are also a lot of British Snowbirds in at least one of the areas we are visiting. We will probably do a little scouting for snowbird destinations as once we retire we'll be switching our snowbird destination to Europe. More than likely though southern Spain. Our favorite part of Europe. 5 years away though. Should be an adventurer.

I have relatives in southern section of Portugal. I have not been there yet.

Bedlam wrote:
I only found northern Italy did not have a smell. It was not always exhaust you were smelling there - The sewers had powerful odor.

Yah we noticed that too. Too touristy for a long stay but the little towns not too far away have lots of good eats at half the price. Headed back in 2021 but mostly southern Italy and Greece.

Headed to Portugal tomorrow. Should be in downtown Lisbon by Friday afternoon and stuffed full of fish by Friday night. :)

I only found northern Italy did not have a smell. It was not always exhaust you were smelling there - The sewers had powerful odor.

Another city shutting down diesel in their core. There are a ton of tour busses in that area but I suspect they could use BEV busses or hydrogen or whatever. Rome is a fun and crazy town but it is one of the stinkier smoggy cities we visit in Europe. We haven’t been there since 2014 but yah, it could use a little attention. Crazy freakin drivers. Fun town though. Incredible history experience.

https://electrek.co/2018/02/28/rome-bans-diesel-cars-2024/

The EPA has become a business and business has become too good.

In addition I recently read that Mercedes Benz has announced they're pulling the plug on providing diesel car to North America.

Also several major European city's announced plans to phase diesel out and switch to gasoline.

ShinerBock wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

I get the DPF thing. I know our 2003 Cummins is stinkier than the new pushers.

People need to live in cities. Otherwise they have to commute which brings the problem full circle.

Interesting info on the size of the particles. Didn’t know that. Kinda comes down to lesser of two evils I suppose.

But I think leaving it up to the manufacturers is not an option. They just won’t do anything. It is governments role to regulate this kind of thing. Now we just need to find good politicians. :).

Cheers.

John.

People don't need to live in the city. If health was an issue for someone then they can take measures to either commute or live in a less populated area. Most don't want to do that because they are not willing to sacrifice the conveniences of city living or their city job. In those regards, the conveniences trumps everything else and it is just easier to make other people change then change yourself for things you want. I commute 40+ miles one way and I gladly spend that extra money and time to live away from the city.

Also, manufacturers only do as their customers demand with their money. If the customers demand lower emissions then believe me, the manufacturers will change to meet that demand. So this is not solely the fault of the manufacturers when they are mostly giving people what they want.

Some regulation can be good, but most of the time the politician doesn't know that he doesn't know enough and just makes matters worse by caving in to enviro groups that don't know enough about engines either. Most of the time they just focus on meeting some "feel good" number to keep the enviro groups happy and do not even look at the cause and effect of meeting that number or whether it will make matters worse or not.

Case in point is whether going from 2.5 g/bhp-hr 2004 NOx standard to the .2g/bhp-hr 2010 NOx standard worth the 15-30% drop in fuel for every diesel on the road(which consumes ore fuel requiring more to be pumped from the ground), the creation of the DEF industry along with its factories, the fleets created transport DEF to pumps & warehouses, and the landfill pollution of all of these 2.5 gallon jugs. Would going to maybe a 1.5 g/bhp-hr be better since it would eliminate DEF and the pollution from its industry? Don't know, but it would be worth to find out. Instead these politicians just worried about hitting a number back in 2006 when they created the 2010 standard not knowing that meeting that number would crate a whole new DEF industry and more pollution along with decreased fuel mileage.

I have always wondered about the E85 thing for some of those same reasons. Like I say, I’m not an expert on this kind of things. It just goes against the grain to grow fuel on land that could feed people. And it is heaviliy subsidized. But again, there is probably more to the story than I see.


John.

John & Angela wrote:

I get the DPF thing. I know our 2003 Cummins is stinkier than the new pushers.

People need to live in cities. Otherwise they have to commute which brings the problem full circle.

Interesting info on the size of the particles. Didn’t know that. Kinda comes down to lesser of two evils I suppose.

But I think leaving it up to the manufacturers is not an option. They just won’t do anything. It is governments role to regulate this kind of thing. Now we just need to find good politicians. :).

Cheers.

John.

People don't need to live in the city. If health was an issue for someone then they can take measures to either commute or live in a less populated area. Most don't want to do that because they are not willing to sacrifice the conveniences of city living or their city job. In those regards, the conveniences trumps everything else and it is just easier to make other people change then change yourself for things you want. I commute 40+ miles one way and I gladly spend that extra money and time to live away from the city.

Also, manufacturers only do as their customers demand with their money. If the customers demand lower emissions then believe me, the manufacturers will change to meet that demand. So this is not solely the fault of the manufacturers when they are mostly giving people what they want.

Some regulation can be good, but most of the time the politician doesn't know that he doesn't know enough and just makes matters worse by caving in to enviro groups that don't know enough about engines either. Most of the time they just focus on meeting some "feel good" number to keep the enviro groups happy and do not even look at the cause and effect of meeting that number or whether it will make matters worse or not.

Case in point is whether going from 2.5 g/bhp-hr 2004 NOx standard to the .2g/bhp-hr 2010 NOx standard worth the 15-30% drop in fuel for every diesel on the road(which consumes ore fuel requiring more to be pumped from the ground), the creation of the DEF industry along with its factories, the fleets created transport DEF to pumps & warehouses, and the landfill pollution of all of these 2.5 gallon jugs. Would going to maybe a 1.5 g/bhp-hr be better since it would eliminate DEF and the pollution from its industry? Don't know, but it would be worth to find out. Instead these politicians just worried about hitting a number back in 2006 when they created the 2010 standard not knowing that meeting that number would crate a whole new DEF industry and more pollution along with decreased fuel mileage.

In Europe, getting away from population density is not really possible. They have limited urban sprawl with restrictions to avoid using up all their available farm land, so most people have to be city dwellers or farmers.

Much has been written about Europe's pollution and the damage it does to peoples' health and even to historic monuments. Although some of the concerns are due to vehicles, most had to do with dirty industries and power generation from facilities that use outdated equipment. As one segment gets cleaned up focus is now on another, but there are diminishing returns on expenditures as the standards continue to tighten.