Dodge all in on electric too 500 mile range Ram

JRscooby wrote:


You missed the point of my question; A CG has 30 Amp sites, decides they want to have more of the 2 AC units stop instead of going down the road. If they are trenching, and pushing pipe to run the extra wire for the 50 AMP service to sites, how much extra money would it take to also put in charge ports?

Not alot extra, if you look at it like you are and aren't considering ALL the costs, including not only upgrading for the 2 AC folks as you put it, but also 2AC + EV, same site.
Add to that, permitting, environmental plans/approvals, overhead costs for those items, service upgrade costs from the utility company, design costs AND, then the additional cost of materials and installation of bigger wire/conduits/service and distribution panels and the actual charge peds.

I understand that people, like yourself, who don't or didn't do this as a profession couldn't be expected to understand, but as an example,
I have one project currently, design-build, so I see or incur a good portion of the overall cost of the improvements.
Rough numbers, total project value, $10 million. Actual construction budget (men, machines and materials), about $6 million. Probably add another million at least to it for the permitting, environmental and utility relocations/upgrades, that were done by the client prior to and somewhere around half the overall cost doesn't put pipe and wire in the ground.

Will it happen? Yup. Will technology advance more than now? Yup
Do many people seriously underestimate the cost/time/effort involved (my "meat comes from the grocery store" analogy)? Yup again.

Thermoguy wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK AN EV HAS TO BE PLUGGED IN EVERY TIME IT STOPS?

We don't...regardless of how EV owners look down their nose at non ev owners, it doesn't mean that they are ignorant to the facts.
In fact, a great argument can be made that those poking "holes" in "plans" that are still at least partly utopian, or in some cases, largely utopian, are just being conscious realists.
However, the majority of the context of this conversation (and most of the EV discussions around here) center on TOW VEHICLES. And while performing that function of a tow vehicle, many/most of those trips, combined with significantly reduced charge range due to the added load, would require the EV to be plugged in and recharged at most stops.

JRscooby wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


Stupid question; If a CG is upgrading sites from 30 too 50 Amp, how much extra cost to also add capacity to charge EVs? Bet most have made/are making that change so I assume they have run the numbers and are betting the upcharge for site with upgraded power will pay off.

Electricity costs are negligible. It the cost to upgrade the electrical infrastructure that is going to make RV parks reluctant to fully embrace EVs. I would much rather miss some potential business than come out of pocket with $50,000 or more to upgrade the electrical system when there isn’t a clear need.

You missed the point of my question; A CG has 30 Amp sites, decides they want to have more of the 2 AC units stop instead of going down the road. If they are trenching, and pushing pipe to run the extra wire for the 50 AMP service to sites, how much extra money would it take to also put in charge ports?

The trenching would be the same. The copper cost would be double if they use the KOA approach of a 40 amp EVSE on each pedestal. But really, this is a 30 year transition. If they put EVSE’s on a third of the pedestals they would probably be covered for the next 20 years.

Jmho. Not an expert.

wapiticountry wrote:

JRscooby wrote:


Stupid question; If a CG is upgrading sites from 30 too 50 Amp, how much extra cost to also add capacity to charge EVs? Bet most have made/are making that change so I assume they have run the numbers and are betting the upcharge for site with upgraded power will pay off.

Electricity costs are negligible. It the cost to upgrade the electrical infrastructure that is going to make RV parks reluctant to fully embrace EVs. I would much rather miss some potential business than come out of pocket with $50,000 or more to upgrade the electrical system when there isn’t a clear need.

You missed the point of my question; A CG has 30 Amp sites, decides they want to have more of the 2 AC units stop instead of going down the road. If they are trenching, and pushing pipe to run the extra wire for the 50 AMP service to sites, how much extra money would it take to also put in charge ports?

goducks10 wrote:
I have 2 E bikes. They don't need a full charge every time we ride. No different than a guy with an EV going from point A to B. Grab what you need and hit the road.
As far as adding EV specific charge stations, there are Gov rebates in every state. Some quite generous.
It will take time for many to add EV charging stations. I would suspect that until RV'ing gets more popular and an RV park starts getting a lot of inquiries they probably won't care.
Those with EV's as toads will do what they need to to charge up.
IMO it's going to be many years before you see 10-20% of campers with EV's and trailers. Until then there's really no incentive even with rebates to add EV charging stations or even upgrade a few spots. It's a wait and see thing.

I tend to agree. Until the 1/2 ton EV’s go into serious production in a few years the only EV RVers will be those of us towing with EV SUV’s. We see more all the time but it’s not something I would call common. There are a couple thousand of us that participate on a Facebook EV towing group but some of those are towing boats etc so not all are RVers. I would say the majority of us towing RV’s are towing teardrops but I see some towing little conventional type square box trailers as well. All the EV SUV tow capacities are under 5000 lbs and most are 3500 lbs or under. Just not that popular at that size.

I have 2 E bikes. They don't need a full charge every time we ride. No different than a guy with an EV going from point A to B. Grab what you need and hit the road.
As far as adding EV specific charge stations, there are Gov rebates in every state. Some quite generous.
It will take time for many to add EV charging stations. I would suspect that until RV'ing gets more popular and an RV park starts getting a lot of inquiries they probably won't care.
Those with EV's as toads will do what they need to to charge up.
IMO it's going to be many years before you see 10-20% of campers with EV's and trailers. Until then there's really no incentive even with rebates to add EV charging stations or even upgrade a few spots. It's a wait and see thing.

^ Add a zero to your $50k statement and that would be closer to correct... btw I agree with you.

JRscooby wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Too funny. Going into a fully functioning facility of ant type it’s not so simple as “pulling a few wires”

Stupid question; If a CG is upgrading sites from 30 too 50 Amp, how much extra cost to also add capacity to charge EVs? Bet most have made/are making that change so I assume they have run the numbers and are betting the upcharge for site with upgraded power will pay off.
Bet that very few will be towing to CG with EV for years. OTOH, I can see a lot of EVs used as toads in the next few years.
Could CG meter power to post, charge extra for high use? AC in a tent, or charge a EV, would cause them to pay more. (Might help with lights on all night too)

Electricity costs are negligible. It the cost to upgrade the electrical infrastructure that is going to make RV parks reluctant to fully embrace EVs. I would much rather miss some potential business than come out of pocket with $50,000 or more to upgrade the electrical system when there isn’t a clear need. Nobody has a clue as to how the EV charging landscape will look ten or twenty years down the road. Maybe the charging will improve to the point the traditional fueling srations can provide charging in a time equal to current petroleum fuels. Maybe electric vehicles are the 8 track/ cassette tape/ CDs of the world and technology will quickly render them obsolete as hydrogen flying cars dominate .
As for KOA it is my understanding their foray into EV charging only goes as far as partnering with a pedestal supplier to have a charging port added to a standard pedestal and then the put a KOA logo on it. The park still has to buy it and wire it into their grid. KOA is not requiring parks to add them and likely won’t. It is much more corporate PR than some huge push for EVs.
Finally, there was a post you don’t always need to charge EVs at every opportunity. True, but if a business builds in that ability, they have to plan and build the system to work on the assumption they may all be in use at some time.

Thermoguy wrote:
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK AN EV HAS TO BE PLUGGED IN EVERY TIME IT STOPS?

I don't fill my tank every time I stop. I have a gauge and it tells me about how far I can go. An EV has a much more accurate gauge. If you use 50% of your battery to get to the site, maybe plugging in for a few hours or overnight to a standard outlet is all you need to get home. Maybe you don't need to plug in at all, maybe there is a quick charge 10-20 miles away, similar to a gas station. The benefit to a campground is many already have electrical service to camp sites. My trailer can go a couple days without plugging in. So, if I had an EV, maybe I plug it in overnight and live life on the boondocking edge with only my batteries...

I feel like everyone here forgets having trucks built in the 70's. Small gas tanks, poor gas mileage. Both of the 70 era trucks I had couldn't drive by a gas station without getting gas. Forget pulling a trailer, this was just the truck by itself. Add a trailer, 8-10 miles to the gallon or less and a small tank. My dually had 2 tanks, but that was special. The truck before that, same engine, but only 1 tank. Driving across state is what put all those small gas stations in little towns in business and thriving. The EV curve is the same, initially they need more ways to charge, but eventually they will have ranges similar or further than an ICE, but as I said 5 pages ago you can charge an EV at home, you can't fill up your ICE at home...

Yep. Nailed it.

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK AN EV HAS TO BE PLUGGED IN EVERY TIME IT STOPS?

I don't fill my tank every time I stop. I have a gauge and it tells me about how far I can go. An EV has a much more accurate gauge. If you use 50% of your battery to get to the site, maybe plugging in for a few hours or overnight to a standard outlet is all you need to get home. Maybe you don't need to plug in at all, maybe there is a quick charge 10-20 miles away, similar to a gas station. The benefit to a campground is many already have electrical service to camp sites. My trailer can go a couple days without plugging in. So, if I had an EV, maybe I plug it in overnight and live life on the boondocking edge with only my batteries...

I feel like everyone here forgets having trucks built in the 70's. Small gas tanks, poor gas mileage. Both of the 70 era trucks I had couldn't drive by a gas station without getting gas. Forget pulling a trailer, this was just the truck by itself. Add a trailer, 8-10 miles to the gallon or less and a small tank. My dually had 2 tanks, but that was special. The truck before that, same engine, but only 1 tank. Driving across state is what put all those small gas stations in little towns in business and thriving. The EV curve is the same, initially they need more ways to charge, but eventually they will have ranges similar or further than an ICE, but as I said 5 pages ago you can charge an EV at home, you can't fill up your ICE at home...