Tongue weight should be between 10 & 15%. It usually is. There is a potential serious safety issue if it's below 10% and that's well documented everywhere. But what is the downside of being over 15%? That is, assuming that you are not overloading the TV on payload capacity. Someone on another forum was asking the other day what happens if it is around 20%. I looked all over the internet and couldn't find anything. Is there any safety concern with being over 15% or is it simply a concern of payload capacity and maybe WDH rating?Our TT has a tongue percentage of 14.5% when all loaded for camping and that's with empty tanks and just one battery. Interestingly, the percentage based on factory dry weights is 10%. I could see us being over 15% if we had a full tank of fresh water and two batteries, but probably not by much. Is handling negatively affected when you start to creep up over 15%?

Most Toy Haulers have very heave tongue weight. My 22' TH tongue weight is around 1200 lbs. when unloaded. I use a Reese dual cam with 1200# bars. No issues with heavy tongue weight only if you go to lite. Look at semi's there tires are at the back of the trailer putting a lot of the weight on the truck.

Some receivers are simply not rated for big tongue weight above 1200 lbs

I was over 15%. Because of the extra weight it put on the rear axle (even with a WD hitch) it was a handful to tow on the road. Now i'm at 1200lbs on a 9200lb loaded TT. And now it tows excellent.

I have built and towed many equipment trailers over the past 40 years. As long as the TV is rated to tow the tongue weight (including the strength of the receiver) I have never had an issue with it. It is fine to be over 15% but dangerous to be seriously under 10%. I don't recommend having the extra tongue weight but some trailers will have this situation because of the loading on the trailer. Remember, the heavy equipment trailers have large Pintle Hitches, but the principle is the same.

Both my trailers have been 15-16% at some point in their lives, and there have been no problems with handling once the WDH was setup right. If anything they were very stable.5th wheels handle better than travel trailers because of both their high pin weight (15-25%) and it's placement above the rear axle. Over in Europe where they don't use WDH, they have the 85% rule: the trailer weight shouldn't exceed 85% of the tow vehicles weight. Over here we can exceed that because the WDH puts more weight on the tow vehicle (and I suspect our WDH's have better mechanical sway control). As long as the tow vehicle can handle it, the more weight the better IMHO. fla-gypsy wrote:Some receivers are simply not rated for big tongue weight above 1200 lbs^ This, plus the truck's rear GAWR and GVWR. You gotta check all three.Last time we weighed the new trailer, tongue weight was a bit over 15%, 1130#. We were under the receiver rating 20#, under the GVWR by 200#, but over the rear GAWR by 130#. Since then I've moved stuff out of the pass-thru and tightened up the WDH so hopefully the rear GAWR is no longer exceeded .

Downside to tongue weight over 15%? | Good Sam Community

35 Replies

Lantley
Nomad
Jan 25, 2014
myredracer wrote:
Another related question I might add to this is you often hear people saying that you can load your TT differently to move weight forward or rearward to change the tongue weight. That may be good in theory but in reality I don't see how it be be feasible.

If you have a front bedroom, you load your clothes and bedding up front. You load your food, dishes and kitchen stuff in the rear if it's a rear kitchen or over the axles if that's where the kitchen is. Then all the other misc. stuff like books, DVDs, etc. goes wherever the cabinets and storage spaces are that came with the unit. If you have pass-through storage up front, which is the norm, you put your BBQ, outdoor mat, chocks, sewer stuff and all the other outside stuff there. I can't see putting all the pass-through stuff inside at the rear or loading all the stuff in your kitchen up front in the bedroom. And then relocate it all again when you get to your destination. Seems like the tongue weight pretty much ends being whatever it ends up being.

Our fresh water tank is just aft of the A-frame. With a full tank, that'd be over 300 lbs up front. Add a 2nd battery and I don't know where our tongue weight would end up at. 16%? 17%?

Maybe there just aren't any safety or handling issues with being over 15% other than making sure you don't overload your TV and ensure your WDH can handle the extra weight?

Everyone out there says your tongue weight should be between 10% and 15%, but exactly why the 15%?

Using a Sherline scale I could shift cargo around to change my TW as required. I could easily move it 200-300 pounds depending on how I loaded. This was a 11K GVW trailer very similar to Dodge Guy's rig shown above.

As others have mentioned as long as the GVW,axle rating and hitch rating are within their parameters, I don't see a problem with an TW in excess of 15%
myredracer
Explorer II
Jan 25, 2014
Another related question I might add to this is you often hear people saying that you can load your TT differently to move weight forward or rearward to change the tongue weight. That may be good in theory but in reality I don't see how it be be feasible.

If you have a front bedroom, you load your clothes and bedding up front. You load your food, dishes and kitchen stuff in the rear if it's a rear kitchen or over the axles if that's where the kitchen is. Then all the other misc. stuff like books, DVDs, etc. goes wherever the cabinets and storage spaces are that came with the unit. If you have pass-through storage up front, which is the norm, you put your BBQ, outdoor mat, chocks, sewer stuff and all the other outside stuff there. I can't see putting all the pass-through stuff inside at the rear or loading all the stuff in your kitchen up front in the bedroom. And then relocate it all again when you get to your destination. Seems like the tongue weight pretty much ends being whatever it ends up being.

Our fresh water tank is just aft of the A-frame. With a full tank, that'd be over 300 lbs up front. Add a 2nd battery and I don't know where our tongue weight would end up at. 16%? 17%?

Maybe there just aren't any safety or handling issues with being over 15% other than making sure you don't overload your TV and ensure your WDH can handle the extra weight?

Everyone out there says your tongue weight should be between 10% and 15%, but exactly why the 15%?
Ron_Gratz
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
waynec1957 wrote:
myredracer wrote:
Interestingly, the percentage based on factory dry weights is 10%.
I’m glad someone else noticed this; I’ve seen published tongue weights from different manufacturers as low as 9%. The general consensus (though not everyone agrees) seems to be manufacturers design some TTs with these lighter TWs to make them “half-ton towable”.
Please note that "myredracer" full paragraph stated:
Our TT has a tongue percentage of 14.5% when all loaded for camping and that's with empty tanks and just one battery. Interestingly, the percentage based on factory dry weights is 10%. I could see us being over 15% if we had a full tank of fresh water and two batteries, but probably not by much. Is handling negatively affected when you start to creep up over 15%?

I'm guessing the manufacturer knew the tongue weight would increase beyond 10% when the trailer was loaded for camping -- even with only one battery. Simply adding 150# of propane and batteries to the tongue of a 5000# trailer could change the TW% from 10% to 12.5%. And that doesn't include any effects of cargo carried in the front pass-through storage which is common in many TTs.

I raised the question in another thread, if a lighter tongue weight is designed into the unit by the manufacturer, why does actually towing at that tongue weight make the unit unstable (or does it)? My neighbor at our seasonal site tows new, empty TTs out of the factories in northern Indiana—last year he pulled over 100k miles. He just hooks them up in the parking lot and goes regardless of the dry tongue weight. He doesn’t even own a WDH. So what is it about loading these campers (assuming they’re balanced) that makes it necessary to add (on certain units) 4-5% to the TW? My sense is part of it has something to do with putting enough weight (causing friction) on the WDH for it to function properly.
For some TV/TT combinations, it can be shown theoretically and experimentally that the combination can become dynamically unstable if the tongue weight percentage is below a certain value. Whether the instability will cause handling problems depends on driver experience (your neighbor tows 100k miles per year) and on TV characteristics (I doubt your neighbor is towing with a SUV or a light pickup).

That being said, I’ve been looking into the premium hitches (the ProPride 3P and Hensley Arrow). One of the big differences between how these work compared to conventional WDHs is the premium hitches handle sway and weight distribution separately. Conventional WDHs use friction to handle them simultaneously. So looking at one of these hitches gives an idea of what happens if sway is addressed properly but weight distribution isn’t.
I think you might be confusing tongue weight and tongue weight percentage. Most WDHs with integrated sway control can control sway quite well with a tongue weight of 500#. However, a 500# TW on a 5000# TT gives a TW% of only 10%.

With the 3P or Hensley Arrow, either one, it doesn’t matter how much or how little weight you have on the tongue the trailer can’t sway (I got this from both Sean at ProPride and Terry at Hensley Mfg.).---
Remember -- Sean and Terry are in the business of selling trailer hitches.

So what I take away from all this is each TT and hitch combination must have a “sweet spot” where everything is in balance. And when using a conventional WHD not only would that “hobby horse effect” be possible I would also think sway could be an issue if that sweet spot isn’t hit.
For a given trailer load distribution, there is a TW% at which the lateral force exerted by the coupler against the ball will be minimized. This "threshold" TW% tends to be in the range of 10-15% depending on trailer dimensions and load distribution.

If the TW% is less than the threshold value, the lateral force acts in a direction which tends to make the TV/TT unstable in yaw (sway).
If the TW% is greater than the threshold value, the lateral force acts in the opposite direction and does not cause yaw instability.
So, it's important to ensure that the TW% does not go below the threshold, but it's okay to be over the threshold if the TV can handle the TW.

Ron
wmoses
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
brulaz wrote:
UK Caravan Insurance Web Site

Thanks for the link which states what you said. My point still stands though.

My trailer fully laden (as rated) will weigh 7600#, and my trunk weighs about 5400# IIRC. Guess they don't have / allow rigs like we have over here. Over there, it seems if you like a certain floor plan, you'd better have a tow vehicle 15% heavier.
brulaz
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
wmoses wrote:
brulaz wrote:
Over in Europe where they don't use WDH, they have the 85% rule: the trailer weight shouldn't exceed 85% of the tow vehicles weight.

I suspect there is an error in the above. Either that or they have to only tow tiny trailers, which I know is not the case,

UK Caravan Insurance Web Site
boosTT
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
It's not good to put more weight on one axle of an dual axle trailer. More weight in the front could do this.
waynec1957
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
myredracer wrote:
Interestingly, the percentage based on factory dry weights is 10%.

I’m glad someone else noticed this; I’ve seen published tongue weights from different manufacturers as low as 9%. The general consensus (though not everyone agrees) seems to be manufacturers design some TTs with these lighter TWs to make them “half-ton towable”.

I raised the question in another thread, if a lighter tongue weight is designed into the unit by the manufacturer, why does actually towing at that tongue weight make the unit unstable (or does it)? My neighbor at our seasonal site tows new, empty TTs out of the factories in northern Indiana—last year he pulled over 100k miles. He just hooks them up in the parking lot and goes regardless of the dry tongue weight. He doesn’t even own a WDH. So what is it about loading these campers (assuming they’re balanced) that makes it necessary to add (on certain units) 4-5% to the TW? My sense is part of it has something to do with putting enough weight (causing friction) on the WDH for it to function properly.

That being said, I’ve been looking into the premium hitches (the ProPride 3P and Hensley Arrow). One of the big differences between how these work compared to conventional WDHs is the premium hitches handle sway and weight distribution separately. Conventional WDHs use friction to handle them simultaneously. So looking at one of these hitches gives an idea of what happens if sway is addressed properly but weight distribution isn’t.

With the 3P or Hensley Arrow, either one, it doesn’t matter how much or how little weight you have on the tongue the trailer can’t sway (I got this from both Sean at ProPride and Terry at Hensley Mfg.). What happens if there isn’t enough weight on the tongue (using one of these hitches) the trailer will bounce (Sean at ProPride called it the “hobby horse effect”) because there is too much weight on the TT’s axles. If there’s too much weight on the tongue the same effect is possible because there is too little weight on the TT’s axle.

So what I take away from all this is each TT and hitch combination must have a “sweet spot” where everything is in balance. And when using a conventional WHD not only would that “hobby horse effect” be possible I would also think sway could be an issue if that sweet spot isn’t hit.

This is all anecdotal and I couldn’t prove it scientifically if my life depended on it, but this is what I’m beginning to think about TW and weight distribution.
wmoses
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
myredracer wrote:
.... That is, assuming that you are not overloading the TV on payload capacity.... what happens if it is around 20%. I looked all over the internet and couldn't find anything. Is there any safety concern with being over 15% or is it simply a concern of payload capacity and maybe WDH rating?

The recommendation of 10 - 15% trailer weight on the tongue is an effort to reduce the tendency of a trailer to sway. I suspect that this range is a minimum that is likely based on experience as opposed to scientific experiment.

That said and as you stated, assuming that all loads are within rated capacity of hitch, tow vehicle, etc., exceeding the 15% would not be a problem since the towed weight aft the fulcrum (hitch ball) is being reduced so the mass that contributes to the towing instability (sway) is being also reduced.

l have routinely had my tongue weight on my previous RV over 15% and it always towed beautifully.
wmoses
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
brulaz wrote:
Over in Europe where they don't use WDH, they have the 85% rule: the trailer weight shouldn't exceed 85% of the tow vehicles weight.

I suspect there is an error in the above. Either that or they have to only tow tiny trailers, which I know is not the case,
coolbreeze01
Explorer
Jan 25, 2014
"Is handling negatively affected when you start to creep up over 15%?"

No, assuming your TV isn't overloaded. A little over on ideal tongue weight is better than not enough.

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Downside to tongue weight over 15%?

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