Ecoboost vs. V8 - Can you explain?

Mickeyfan0805 wrote:

noteven wrote:

Turbocharged engine do not starve for air at high altitude so produce their rated power you paid for.

I'm fascinated by this. There is long-common rule of thumb that you need to compensate your tow rating, with gassers, for high altitude towing. Are you suggesting that the EB, though a gasser, reduces/eliminates this concern?

These are great responses for those of us less knowledgeable on engines. Thanks to everyone!

Turbocharged engines will maintain power output to the altitude of most roads. My 5.9 Cummins has a manifold pressure gauge ... it will say 30psi at sea level in OR and 30psi in Monarch Pass at 11,200ft - suggesting power is probably the same.

mhamershock wrote:

carringb wrote:
Do remember when the EcoBoost came out 10 years ago (yup! 10 years now...) and this forums was predicting mass doom and gloom?

If you believed everything you read on RV.net, the highways would be littered by F150s needing turbos and timing chains or burning holes through their blocks. Oh and we'd all be stuck behind lines of cars while some idiot in their V6 grocery getter can't climb hill....

Timing chains (phasers) are sure an issue. LOTS of guys are having issues with the Gen2 motor and a cold start rattle - I am one of them. Ford has come down with the grand "it's normal" response.

Gen1s had a lot of issues with stretched timing chains. Turbo failures aren't uncommon (I had one), and more than a few Gen1s holed their blocks in the early days. Overheating under load was also an issue. Course, when you sell as many as Ford has the failure % is pretty low overall.

I'm happy with my 40k mile 2018 Gen2 3.5 except for the cold start rattle. Hasn't broken yet, but it sounds like cr@p. ESP covers it I hope if it ever grenades. I dumped the Gen1 EB I had at 120k miles since it was wore out. These small motors get worked hard to make the HP they do.

There's a reason Ford isn't putting them in the Super Duty.

carringb wrote:
Do remember when the EcoBoost came out 10 years ago (yup! 10 years now...) and this forums was predicting mass doom and gloom?

If you believed everything you read on RV.net, the highways would be littered by F150s needing turbos and timing chains or burning holes through their blocks. Oh and we'd all be stuck behind lines of cars while some idiot in their V6 grocery getter can't climb hill....

Timing chains (phasers) are sure an issue. LOTS of guys are having issues with the Gen2 motor and a cold start rattle - I am one of them. Ford has come down with the grand "it's normal" response.

Gen1s had a lot of issues with stretched timing chains. Turbo failures aren't uncommon (I had one), and more than a few Gen1s holed their blocks in the early days. Overheating under load was also an issue. Course, when you sell as many as Ford has the failure % is pretty low overall.

I'm happy with my 40k mile 2018 Gen2 3.5 except for the cold start rattle. Hasn't broken yet, but it sounds like cr@p. ESP covers it I hope if it ever grenades. I dumped the Gen1 EB I had at 120k miles since it was wore out. These small motors get worked hard to make the HP they do.

^ Good to see some things never change at rvnet!

Do remember when the EcoBoost came out 10 years ago (yup! 10 years now...) and this forums was predicting mass doom and gloom?

If you believed everything you read on RV.net, the highways would be littered by F150s needing turbos and timing chains or burning holes through their blocks. Oh and we'd all be stuck behind lines of cars while some idiot in their V6 grocery getter can't climb hill....

I was on the skeptical side... owning one now, I'm impressed with the little engine that can :)

Mickeyfan wrote:
Are you suggesting that the EB, though a gasser, reduces/eliminates this concern?

Exactly! It's a common misconception that it's the fuel type that matters, in reality the fuel type has nothing to do with performance at high elevation. It's forced induction that matters. Since virtually all modern diesels are turbocharged and relatively few gas truck engines are, people think it's a gas/diesel thing. If you've ever been stuck behind a pre-1994 Ford diesel in the mountains, the slow pace and stream of black smoke illustrate this very well.

in simplified terms...

At sea level, we breathe 1 atmosphere worth of air. Ditto an ICE (internal combustion engine. Both Gasser and diesel are ICE's)

Turbo charge, or super charger (one uses exhaust gases to spin a compressor wheel forcing more air into the ICE, other uses belt driven compressor) forces more air at sea level.

How much is normally discussed in terms of PSI (pounds per square inch that the air will impart on it)

Think of that as forcing in 2, 3, or more atmospheres into the ICE. Tidbit is that now stuffs in the amount of air a larger displacement ICE would inhale, but stuffed into a smaller displacement

When going up in altitude, the air gets thinner. Humans need to have an oxygen mask to help breath. Same amount of air, but more O2

With forced induction (turbo or super charger) will stuff more air and that compensates for the thinner air

Hope that helps you understand

Mickeyfan0805 wrote:

noteven wrote:

Turbocharged engine do not starve for air at high altitude so produce their rated power you paid for.

I'm fascinated by this. There is long-common rule of thumb that you need to compensate your tow rating, with gassers, for high altitude towing. Are you suggesting that the EB, though a Gasser, reduces/eliminates this concern?

These are great responses for those of us less knowledgeable on engines. Thanks to everyone!

mhamershock wrote:
Time to become a gearhead. This review is for the Gen 1 Eco. The Gen 2 is an far superior performer.

https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/04/how-we-dyno-tested-fords-3-5-liter-ecoboost-v6-and-5-0-liter-v8-engines.html

Interesting read - thanks.

noteven wrote:

Turbocharged engine do not starve for air at high altitude so produce their rated power you paid for.

I'm fascinated by this. There is long-common rule of thumb that you need to compensate your tow rating, with gassers, for high altitude towing. Are you suggesting that the EB, though a gasser, reduces/eliminates this concern?

These are great responses for those of us less knowledgeable on engines. Thanks to everyone!