Forum Discussion
- Let me start by saying I am a big fan of electric vehicles (I didn't think I would be until I first drove one). I think an electric truck will be great for the average homeowner who owns a truck, boaters, contractors, etc. But this is the tow vehicle sub-forum, and for now, I am not very excited about an EV for towing a camper.
Range isn't the issue. The video said the GM would be good for 400 miles, and most of the new trucks and SUVs are 250-400 miles in rated range. From my experiences, the EPA estimates for EV miles are pretty much right on (vs. extremely optimistic compared to my actual experience with MPG on gas cars). My first electrified car was a 2018 Honda Clarity, a plug in hybrid. Its estimated miles were 49, and on average that is probably right. In the summer (we get hot and humid here, the AC runs overtime), I was usually right by that number, anywhere from 2-3 below to 5-6 above it. There was a month or so in the Spring and a month or so in the Fall where I didn't use the AC or heat very heavily where I'd do about 20% better (55-60), and in the winter I'd drop to the low to mid 30s at times and rarely over 40 (~20% or greater loss, cold and the heater rob an EV car of a lot of range). My current BEV (all electric) Hyundai Ioniq EV has similar numbers. I got it in late Sept, so I can't say what it will do in July and Aug yet, but in Sept and Oct, I got around 200 miles a charge regularly (it is rated for 170), but during the winter I've been in the 140-155 range so far. So, 300-400 miles is a very usable range.
Charging... Well here is the issue. While a lot of the newer models can take a DCFC quite quickly (some less than 15min to 80% charge), and even a slower, slightly older design (2-3 years since the redesign) will charge from 30% to 80% (you don't want to use a direct current charger above 80%) in 30-60min depending upon the car electronics and battery size. However, having used many charging stations, I can say that they are definitely not designed for charging a vehicle while it is towing. Very few are pull through spots where you can take two spots in a parking lot, one for your car and one for your camper. To use about 90% of them, you'd likely have to unhook your trailer, charge, and then hook back up every time you need to charge.
So, the tow rating on one of these EV pickups or SUVs is great. If you have a boat, you are a contractor and pull a trailer to your worksite, occasionally tow a cargo trailer, etc. and can leave home get to where you are going and get back on one charge, it will be great. Of course, it will also be fine if you are going on a short trip and can get to your campsite on one charge. But, the infrastructure isn't there yet where it is a realistic option for camping with a trailer yet.
If you want to go electrified and tow a camper, I suggest getting a PHEV (plug in hybrid) that can tow. You can plug them in and run them as an electric vehicle for short distances (how far, obviously depends upon the vehicle, but most can make an average American's daily commute to work on all electric), and they work like a hybrid the rest of the time. However, on a trip, they are hybrid vehicles that run on gas and don't need to be constantly charged (until you get where you are going, then charge them if you want to run electric). Some of the more capable are expensive, the BMW X5 PHEV can tow nearly 6K pounds, the Volvo XC90 Recharge is good for 5K. Some are more affordable but you give up quite a bit of towing capacity (the RAV4 Prime is only rated to tow 2500LBS, the Hyundai Santa Fe PHEV and Tuscon PHEV are rated for 2K). If you have heavier requirements, the closest to electric that is currently realistic is a hybrid (the new hybrid option in the F150 is very interesting IMO). FishOnOne wrote:
Here's the new Electric Silverado
Link
At $107.000 I dont think it will sell very well.
And No doubt the dealers will tack on ten grand or more like Ford does w their MachE.
But good luck GM
Ill wait for Cbrtk so dont need to worry about rust or place to charge when traveling cross country.Groover wrote:
More power to the campsites would be nice but a few high power chargers in a common area might be easier to put in and would bail out those that need a charge in a hurry. Charging a pickup on a 50A 240V outlet could take 10 to 15 hours.
I'm betting most will utilize govt grants/tax rebates, so it will have to be available to the general public...so most likely a few sites near the front office.
If we are lucky, they will upgrade the main feed so in the summer when you see brownouts, it will provide better power to the RVs.- I can’t help but think that Ram will have a little advantage here. They’ll see everything that Ford and Chevy have done and learn from there.
Jmho. FishOnOne wrote:
Here's another video with more details on this new truck including a WT model that can tow up to 20,000 lbs. Eight lug 24" wheels and 10 minute charge for 100 miles.
I have to say this is the best looking GM truck I've seen in a long time.
Link
Thanks for posting. Good video. Good competition for the ford.Groover wrote:
Reisender wrote:
Yes agreed. But I don’t think you’ll see DC fast charging at campgrounds or hotels. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. At campgrounds and hotels the client is there at least overnight so they have all night to charge. Equipment outlay for the campground is minimal compared to DC fast charging. It would be difficult for the operator to justify the expense of the DC fast charge equipment. And I’m not sure how many clients would use it. I know I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium to fast charge. Let it charge while I sleep. If someone is in a hurry just go find a Supercharger or DC fast charger.
JMHO. Not an expert.
Digging up the campground to put in extra service isn't easy or cheap and providing that much service to every site could mean a huge increase in the power supply for the campground without a clear need for it. Putting in a fast charger would require much less digging and would clearly define the amount of power needed.
I feel sure that we will end up paying the for the infrastructure and power used no matter what the approach is. At least, that would be the case if I was the campground owner. Though I am sure that there are some I have yet to see a fast charger near any campground.
Yah some good points. KOA is first down this road. Guess we’ll see how that goes for them.
Close to a campground is relative I guess. Just using our own experience I would say DC fast chargers are fairly common within 20 to 40 kilometres of many of the campgrounds we camp at.
Lots of change coming. I would think campgrounds will address it all on their own schedule. Having facilities at each site is probably not necessary for the next 30 or 50 years. Having 10 percent of the sites with a J1772 EVSE would probably be adequate for the next decade. Time will tell.
Cheers.Reisender wrote:
Yes agreed. But I don’t think you’ll see DC fast charging at campgrounds or hotels. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. At campgrounds and hotels the client is there at least overnight so they have all night to charge. Equipment outlay for the campground is minimal compared to DC fast charging. It would be difficult for the operator to justify the expense of the DC fast charge equipment. And I’m not sure how many clients would use it. I know I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium to fast charge. Let it charge while I sleep. If someone is in a hurry just go find a Supercharger or DC fast charger.
JMHO. Not an expert.
Digging up the campground to put in extra service isn't easy or cheap and providing that much service to every site could mean a huge increase in the power supply for the campground without a clear need for it. Putting in a fast charger would require much less digging and would clearly define the amount of power needed.
I feel sure that we will end up paying the for the infrastructure and power used no matter what the approach is. At least, that would be the case if I was the campground owner. Though I am sure that there are some I have yet to see a fast charger near any campground.- "Charging a pickup on a 50A 240V outlet could take 10 to 15 hours."
Yes, Groover, but that's about my length of stay for an overnight, so it would work for me at least. However, I'd rather boondock. Groover wrote:
Reisender wrote:
ACZL wrote:
Yup, towing range IMO will be reduced to peanuts on either brand. Again, IMO, useless. Charging? Well that's a debate all in itself, but while on last outing last fall, CG owner told us he's expanding and installing HD power to those sites so folks can charge their EV vehicles. Guess ya can't with standard power (I'm not an electrical expert by any means). He went onto say that he say one camper w/ a lil genny running to charge up his EV. Makes a lot os sense doesn't it???
No idea on towing. Guess we’ll have to wait and see. Although I don’t think most 1/2 ton owners tow heavy trailers much.
Re he power. Most EV’s are charged with “standard power”. Usually a 14-50 Nema Stove plug commonly found on a campground pedestal or less. My guess is many campgrounds will upgrade by either doing what KOA is doing and putting a 40 amp EVSE on the pedestal or having a bunch of EVSE’s or maybe just extra Nema 14-50 plugs somewhere in a parking area. Should be a good revenue stream for those that do.
JMHO.
More power to the campsites would be nice but a few high power chargers in a common area might be easier to put in and would bail out those that need a charge in a hurry. Charging a pickup on a 50A 240V outlet could take 10 to 15 hours.
Yes agreed. But I don’t think you’ll see DC fast charging at campgrounds or hotels. In my opinion it wouldn't make sense. At campgrounds and hotels the client is there at least overnight so they have all night to charge. Equipment outlay for the campground is minimal compared to DC fast charging. It would be difficult for the operator to justify the expense of the DC fast charge equipment. And I’m not sure how many clients would use it. I know I certainly wouldn’t pay a premium to fast charge. Let it charge while I sleep. If someone is in a hurry just go find a Supercharger or DC fast charger.
JMHO. Not an expert.
