Electric truck - tow vehicle of future ?

Electric vehicles have their place, but they are not the solution to all transportation problems. Have you ever considered how many times energy is converted from different forms before you get vehicle motion from the original source? Every conversion process is less than 100 percent efficient and those losses add up with the number of conversions required.

http://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Energy_loss

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_conversion_efficiency

ShinerBock wrote:

John & Angela wrote:


Well, the country with the highest density of electric vehicles is Norway. Currently 55 percent of all new vehicles sold in Norway are electric and that number continues to rise. Yes cold weather plays a role in range of EV's but ranges continue to increase as batteries get cheaper. Norway is a smaller country but remember, this is the EU. People routinely live in one country and work in another as a citizen of the EU can work anywhere in the EU. Commuting distances are similar. So EV's can work in colder climates. Having said all that, the infrastructure for work place level one or level 2 charging is also much better. Building codes have been changed requiring level 1 or 2 charging in apartments and condos and of course level 3 charging is much more available. We are a few years behind on this side of the pond but it is beginning to change fairly quickly where we are. We live in a cold climate and both our EV's suit all our needs...but then again, we knew that going in..or we wouldn't have bought them. My point being that obviously EV's are not suitable for everyone's needs, but they are for many.

One of the things I like about our leaf is the preheat feature. From the iphone I select preheat, steering wheel warms up, seats warm up and the heater/heat pump comes and its toasty warm within minutes...and all in the garage without having to run an engine and gas out the garage. We like it.

I am not sure why the EU thing was even brought up to bolster your argument. Just because people can work anywhere in the EU does not mean there are many that do in Norway due to there geographical location from the rest of the EU. Also, according to the Norwegian Institute of Transport Economics 2016 study, 75% of all electric vehicle owners in Norway also own an internal combustion engine or Hybrid which is mostly used during the colder winter months.

Good morning. I brought up the EU to illustrate that people who live in Norway commute or travel to neighbouring countries routinely with both their EV's and ICE vehicles. But, part of this is because of the infrastructure available to them. We are experienced European travellers, speak multiple languages and have the opportunity to speak with EV'ers in Europe...although not so much in Nowray. And yes, there are a ton of ICE vehicles still on the road in Norway but of course this only makes sense as EV's are not the panacea to every driving need...or at least not in their present form. The future will bring changes of course.

John & Angela wrote:
Norway is a smaller country but remember, this is the EU. People routinely live in one country and work in another as a citizen of the EU can work anywhere in the EU. Commuting distances are similar.

I'd have to see some links that show commuting distances via automobile are similar in Europe to North America to believe that's even close to being an accurate statement. Population density is much greater there (even when you compare Norway to Canada) and their fuel is outrageously expensive up north (most likely why electric vehicles are popular). The transit system is more developed in Europe due to the population density. Those people that do commute any distance use public transportation and even those with shorter commutes usually use transit since cities are not car friendly for parking or traffic. In Europe, owning a car is still a luxury and not a necessity like most parts of North America.

John & Angela wrote:


Well, the country with the highest density of electric vehicles is Norway. Currently 55 percent of all new vehicles sold in Norway are electric and that number continues to rise. Yes cold weather plays a role in range of EV's but ranges continue to increase as batteries get cheaper. Norway is a smaller country but remember, this is the EU. People routinely live in one country and work in another as a citizen of the EU can work anywhere in the EU. Commuting distances are similar. So EV's can work in colder climates. Having said all that, the infrastructure for work place level one or level 2 charging is also much better. Building codes have been changed requiring level 1 or 2 charging in apartments and condos and of course level 3 charging is much more available. We are a few years behind on this side of the pond but it is beginning to change fairly quickly where we are. We live in a cold climate and both our EV's suit all our needs...but then again, we knew that going in..or we wouldn't have bought them. My point being that obviously EV's are not suitable for everyone's needs, but they are for many.

One of the things I like about our leaf is the preheat feature. From the iphone I select preheat, steering wheel warms up, seats warm up and the heater/heat pump comes and its toasty warm within minutes...and all in the garage without having to run an engine and gas out the garage. We like it.

I am not sure why the EU thing was even brought up to bolster your argument. Just because people can work anywhere in the EU does not mean there are many that do in Norway due to there geographical location from the rest of the EU. Also, according to the Norwegian Institute of Transport Economics 2016 study, 75% of all electric vehicle owners in Norway also own an internal combustion engine or Hybrid which is mostly used during the colder winter months.

Temperature extremes at both ends are hard on batteries. In the cold, chemical reactions are slowed resulting is less power output. In the hot, chemical reactions are accelerated resulting in premature chemical breakdown.

Northern climates also experience more variance in daylight hours. In the winter, we get 8 hours and in the summer we get 16 hours. This means that winter driving requires more lighting and heat generation for the driver. In the South, power demands are highest in the Summer when air conditioning is run to keep the car comfortable.

Lessmore wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

But yah I hear what you are saying. If you want to really see something depressing go to a drag strip and watch the Teslas knock off half million dollar lamborghinis in the quarter mile. 7 passenger complete with kid seats and cup holders handing lamborghinis and Ferraris their assets...and all in total silence...and a five star safety rating. Ouch

Of course, this is the one performance metric where it does well but is the least road relevant test.

10 laps on the nurberg ring and I'd put my money on a base Ford Focus.

I do find talk about fumes and noise funny. I've had diesel 1 ton trucks idle up behind me in parking lots and surprise me. Modern cars are incredibly quiet and short of sniffing the tailpipe, you really can't smell anything.

You don't need 10 laps. It couldn't even make it 1 lap under full power.

My cell phone won't even make it a day without running out of power and some of you are talking electric class 8's. LOL, good luck with that. 100 mile range, LMAO.

Its true. Most EV's have software that limit the output current under certain conditions and temperatures. Our one EV does that after thirty seconds of full pedal although in normal driving there would never be a reason to have full pedal after thirty seconds. Not sure about our other one or what the parameters are. I am not sure how they do it with the Formula E cars. I would suspect some sort of cooling system. But as far as Tesla's competing on race tracks, remember, these are just luxury family SUV's and sedans, they were not made to race although they do pretty good on the drag strip. Tesla has shown no interest in racing which is generally done as a form of advertising. Tesla also doesn't advertise. Why would they, they have two years of production pre-sold. Class 8 is easily achievable within a couple years and 100 mile would work well for many routes. And since ranges continually increase on all EV's that number will continue to increase and be suitable for more and more markets. JMHO

I wonder how well an electric vehicle will do in a very cold climate, say like mine where winter is generally here for 5 to 5 1/2 months. When snow falls here...it doesn't melt, etc. till the Spring. There are always periods of 25 to 30 below, sometimes colder. The distances between cities and towns are long, many over 100 miles.
BTW, the TV show Ice Road Truckers is filmed in the province

Diesel and gas vehicles work well here, but I understand that electric vehicle batteries lose significant efficiency, sometimes unpredictable amounts if temperature is very cold. If this is the case, I wouldn't want to be driving an electric vehicle in situations like this, where I'm watching the meter indicating that the vehicle is losing electric power more rapidly than I thought it would, while I'm driving on a long, empty highway with few towns.

I think pure electric vehicles work better in warmer, less severe climes...but how they will work in places like Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, etc. during a severe winter has me wondering.

Well, the country with the highest density of electric vehicles is Norway. Currently 55 percent of all new vehicles sold in Norway are electric and that number continues to rise. Yes cold weather plays a role in range of EV's but ranges continue to increase as batteries get cheaper. Norway is a smaller country but remember, this is the EU. People routinely live in one country and work in another as a citizen of the EU can work anywhere in the EU. Commuting distances are similar. So EV's can work in colder climates. Having said all that, the infrastructure for work place level one or level 2 charging is also much better. Building codes have been changed requiring level 1 or 2 charging in apartments and condos and of course level 3 charging is much more available. We are a few years behind on this side of the pond but it is beginning to change fairly quickly where we are. We live in a cold climate and both our EV's suit all our needs...but then again, we knew that going in..or we wouldn't have bought them. My point being that obviously EV's are not suitable for everyone's needs, but they are for many.

One of the things I like about our leaf is the preheat feature. From the iphone I select preheat, steering wheel warms up, seats warm up and the heater/heat pump comes and its toasty warm within minutes...and all in the garage without having to run an engine and gas out the garage. We like it.

John & Angela wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

But yah I hear what you are saying. If you want to really see something depressing go to a drag strip and watch the Teslas knock off half million dollar lamborghinis in the quarter mile. 7 passenger complete with kid seats and cup holders handing lamborghinis and Ferraris their assets...and all in total silence...and a five star safety rating. Ouch

Of course, this is the one performance metric where it does well but is the least road relevant test.

10 laps on the nurberg ring and I'd put my money on a base Ford Focus.

I do find talk about fumes and noise funny. I've had diesel 1 ton trucks idle up behind me in parking lots and surprise me. Modern cars are incredibly quiet and short of sniffing the tailpipe, you really can't smell anything.

You don't need 10 laps. It couldn't even make it 1 lap under full power.

My cell phone won't even make it a day without running out of power and some of you are talking electric class 8's. LOL, good luck with that. 100 mile range, LMAO.

Its true. Most EV's have software that limit the output current under certain conditions and temperatures. Our one EV does that after thirty seconds of full pedal although in normal driving there would never be a reason to have full pedal after thirty seconds. Not sure about our other one or what the parameters are. I am not sure how they do it with the Formula E cars. I would suspect some sort of cooling system. But as far as Tesla's competing on race tracks, remember, these are just luxury family SUV's and sedans, they were not made to race although they do pretty good on the drag strip. Tesla has shown no interest in racing which is generally done as a form of advertising. Tesla also doesn't advertise. Why would they, they have two years of production pre-sold. Class 8 is easily achievable within a couple years and 100 mile would work well for many routes. And since ranges continually increase on all EV's that number will continue to increase and be suitable for more and more markets. JMHO

I wonder how well an electric vehicle will do in a very cold climate, say like mine where winter is generally here for 5 to 5 1/2 months. When snow falls here...it doesn't melt, etc. till the Spring. There are always periods of 25 to 30 below, sometimes colder. The distances between cities and towns are long, many over 100 miles.
BTW, the TV show Ice Road Truckers is filmed in the province

Diesel and gas vehicles work well here, but I understand that electric vehicle batteries lose significant efficiency, sometimes unpredictable amounts if temperature is very cold. If this is the case, I wouldn't want to be driving an electric vehicle in situations like this, where I'm watching the meter indicating that the vehicle is losing electric power more rapidly than I thought it would, while I'm driving on a long, empty highway with few towns.

I think pure electric vehicles work better in warmer, less severe climes...but how they will work in places like Alaska, Montana, North Dakota, etc. during a severe winter has me wondering.

Come to think of it, I saw something similar in Amsterdam a couple of years ago. A small electric semi pulling a small container on a trailer. Seems reasonable for an urban/suburban environment; port to factory and so on.

Looks like Cummins will also build an electric truck with 100 mile range:
https://www.autoblog.com/2017/08/30/cummins-unveils-electric-semi-truck-before-tesla/

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

But yah I hear what you are saying. If you want to really see something depressing go to a drag strip and watch the Teslas knock off half million dollar lamborghinis in the quarter mile. 7 passenger complete with kid seats and cup holders handing lamborghinis and Ferraris their assets...and all in total silence...and a five star safety rating. Ouch

Of course, this is the one performance metric where it does well but is the least road relevant test.

10 laps on the nurberg ring and I'd put my money on a base Ford Focus.

I do find talk about fumes and noise funny. I've had diesel 1 ton trucks idle up behind me in parking lots and surprise me. Modern cars are incredibly quiet and short of sniffing the tailpipe, you really can't smell anything.

You don't need 10 laps. It couldn't even make it 1 lap under full power.

My cell phone won't even make it a day without running out of power and some of you are talking electric class 8's. LOL, good luck with that. 100 mile range, LMAO.

Its true. Most EV's have software that limit the output current under certain conditions and temperatures. Our one EV does that after thirty seconds of full pedal although in normal driving there would never be a reason to have full pedal after thirty seconds. Not sure about our other one or what the parameters are. I am not sure how they do it with the Formula E cars. I would suspect some sort of cooling system. But as far as Tesla's competing on race tracks, remember, these are just luxury family SUV's and sedans, they were not made to race although they do pretty good on the drag strip. Tesla has shown no interest in racing which is generally done as a form of advertising. Tesla also doesn't advertise. Why would they, they have two years of production pre-sold. Class 8 is easily achievable within a couple years and 100 mile would work well for many routes. And since ranges continually increase on all EV's that number will continue to increase and be suitable for more and more markets. JMHO