F150 asa TV for 5th wheel

spud1957 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
The info demiles provided is correct. Read Ford's 2017 F150 Towing Guide notes on page 3 for 5th wheel towing;

1.Calculated with SAE J2807 method

Note: Trailer king pin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer king pin load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label

F150 Towing Guide

Yep! Another Ford slide of hand, first is was stripper base trucks less spare tire and rear bumpe, now you can carry/tow an 11,700# 5er, BUT you need to keep the pin weight to 15% of the 11,700# or 1,755#. Now as a 5er tower, towing a 5er with ONLY 15% pin weight is going to be one rough ride, it will chuck like crazy! That and to get to 15% on almost all 5ers you would need to load heavy behind the axles, this could make for an ill handling 5er.

No that is not the total available payload of that F150, BUT they know there are other things that eat payload, passengers, fuel, hitch, and stuff!

Now that 11,700# 5er with a realistic 20% to 22% that would be 2,340# to 2,574# pin!

You might want to check your Ram towing guides before anyone points their finger at Ford.

Ram does the same.

Take a look at the note #7.

http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2016/docs/ram/rammlup3500.pdf

For those that won't bother looking, here it is;

Tongue weight: 10 percent of the gross trailer weight for Conventional Hitch, 15 percent of the gross trailer weight for a 5th Wheel or Gooseneck hitch.

As far as no bumper or spare tire. I call BS on that. Ford uses J2807 just as Ram. Show me where this internet folklore is stated.

Take a look at the Ram 2500 guide. There are tow ratings there for certain models that if you use 20% pin weight, you will also exceed your payload as well.

The Ford without the spare tire etc. has actually been documented. But at this point, it is old news. It was before Ford switched to the SAE guidelines. Not accurate for any of their current vehicles.

I’m not reading 4 pages of this stuff. Bottom line is yes you can tow a fifth wheel with the right F150 and a small enough trailer. My input would be that a HD truck doesn’t cost any or much more and is a more capable platform. I guess I don’t really see why you wouldn’t step up. But I also get that this is a sliding scale. I don’t like dually trucks so that’s where I draw the line. Others are willing to go all the way to MDT’s or beyond. Then there are the dudes rolling arriving in Subaru’s.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

LOL....if me...I'd just stick with the higher class currently own and avoid the risk of dropping down in TV class by ordering the wrong one that would cost tens of thousands more than the sunk cost that the one sitting out on the driveway right now...

That 'might' be enough TV...and since lower class and towing at or over the limits/ratings/etc...to be worn out faster...

And NOT be as capable to 'manhandle' the issue when Mr Murphy crosses my path some day...as the 'sizing'...'ratings'...'specifications' are NOT for the good days out there...but for that day Mr Murphy crosses your path and you need every part of that specification the OEMs dialed in for 'that' vehicle...

But that is just my opinions on this matter....

Screw trucks with the eco boost are available with the HDPP but requires max tow as well. The V8 trucks are available with just HDPP.

Well one caveat, according to TFL and Ford's Build Your Own site the F150 HD payload option appears to be restricted to the 5 liter V8. There goes that class leading torque.

Not only that, the option list gets VERY short too. No remote start, nice wheels, chrome package, etc.

Yes they all use 10% conventional 15% fifth wheel and very few will actually list a maximum pin weight anymore. You will see that in most cases the 15% of TWR is very close to the payload capacity except the Ford F-150 HDPP trucks. So if the rated 15% pin is 1755 and the max TWR is 11,700 if you calculate as intended a trailer with 20% pin weight @1,755 lbs would be about 8,775lbs TWR. Every manufacturer that is SAE j2807 compliant uses this method and they are still very stout numbers for a class 2a truck. The industry norm in general is that pin weight need only be less than the available payload and the TWR reflects that. Ford decided to against the norm and rate TWR less than available payload to be SAE compliant and the TWR’s shows it. It is the person that is behind the wheel responsibility to understand and know the limitations of the vehicle which would clear Ford of any liability because the numbers are there in black and white.

rhagfo wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
The info demiles provided is correct. Read Ford's 2017 F150 Towing Guide notes on page 3 for 5th wheel towing;

1.Calculated with SAE J2807 method

Note: Trailer king pin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer king pin load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label

F150 Towing Guide

Yep! Another Ford slide of hand, first is was stripper base trucks less spare tire and rear bumpe, now you can carry/tow an 11,700# 5er, BUT you need to keep the pin weight to 15% of the 11,700# or 1,755#. Now as a 5er tower, towing a 5er with ONLY 15% pin weight is going to be one rough ride, it will chuck like crazy! That and to get to 15% on almost all 5ers you would need to load heavy behind the axles, this could make for an ill handling 5er.

No that is not the total available payload of that F150, BUT they know there are other things that eat payload, passengers, fuel, hitch, and stuff!

Now that 11,700# 5er with a realistic 20% to 22% that would be 2,340# to 2,574# pin!

You might want to check your Ram towing guides before anyone points their finger at Ford.

Ram does the same.

Take a look at the note #7.

http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2016/docs/ram/rammlup3500.pdf

For those that won't bother looking, here it is;

Tongue weight: 10 percent of the gross trailer weight for Conventional Hitch, 15 percent of the gross trailer weight for a 5th Wheel or Gooseneck hitch.

As far as no bumper or spare tire. I call BS on that. Ford uses J2807 just as Ram. Show me where this internet folklore is stated.

Take a look at the Ram 2500 guide. There are tow ratings there for certain models that if you use 20% pin weight, you will also exceed your payload as well.

It's not just Ford that uses the 15% pin weight to get those high towing numbers is also Ram, Chevy and GMC. Not only the F150 but all the way up to and including the F450 uses 15% to rate towing capacity. When people say 5th wheel they think RV but the ratings are done with 5th wheel flat bed trailer with the load adjusted to get that magical 15%.

spud1957 wrote:
The info demiles provided is correct. Read Ford's 2017 F150 Towing Guide notes on page 3 for 5th wheel towing;

1.Calculated with SAE J2807 method

Note: Trailer king pin load weight should be 15% of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer king pin load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label

F150 Towing Guide

Yep! Another Ford slide of hand, first is was stripper base trucks less spare tire and rear bumpe, now you can carry/tow an 11,700# 5er, BUT you need to keep the pin weight to 15% of the 11,700# or 1,755#. Now as a 5er tower, towing a 5er with ONLY 15% pin weight is going to be one rough ride, it will chuck like crazy! That and to get to 15% on almost all 5ers you would need to load heavy behind the axles, this could make for an ill handling 5er.

No that is not the total available payload of that F150, BUT they know there are other things that eat payload, passengers, fuel, hitch, and stuff!

Now that 11,700# 5er with a realistic 20% to 22% that would be 2,340# to 2,574# pin!

The F150 is the only truck I’ve found that has a TWR that doesn’t take pin weight out to the max payload capacity or at least very close to it. If Ford allowed that the 5th wheel rating would be much higher than what it is because that’s how the SAE standard works. This is the very reason I contacted them for further clarification. Quoting what the commercial truck guy told me is that “ the primary purpose of the HDPP on the f150 is to increase the payload of the truck stand alone. It is not meant to increase the tow capacity by expanding pin weight or hitch capacity.” The Ford rep on the phone said a pin weight higher than %15 of the TWR is above it’s rated limits and course had to add that it can void the warranty of the vehicle. It’s obvious that having extra payload capacity on the truck has its advantages while towing a trailer but with this truck payload and towing are looked at as two totally different things by the manufacturer.