First drive Ram 1500 diesel

itguy08 wrote:

For me that is a realistic interpretation of Gas vs Diesel prices here in PA. Maybe we get hosed on Diesel but I would think a truck stop (in a huge trucking town) would have competitive Diesel prices. Other stations in the area seem to be above $4 for Diesel vs $3.33 - $3.36 for gas. You can check out Gasbuddy and use zip 17013.

Don't forget DEF which I think you need a couple gallons of it every 10k or so IIRC it's about $2.50/gallon.

I have to admit that Diesel prices are very... varied across the country. Which is why in Gas vs. Diesel posts, I typically like to say it depends on your area. But being a forum that can be seen across America, I like to just use averages. So the quick analysis would show a benefit for half of America and no benefit for the other half. However, I've always been suspect of Love's/Pilot/Travel Centers of America. Any fueling station within 500 feet of an interstate tends to command the highest prices in my personal observations (especially the truck stops here). Just drive off the interstate for half a miles or more and the prices drop tremendously. But we don't always have that option in the middle of nowhere LOL.

As for DEF, fuel economy on DEF that I've experienced unloaded is roughly 1,400 miles per gallon. So actually slightly less than 2% of fuel consumed. So every 100 gallons of diesel burned is 2 gallons of DEF or %5.00 worth of DEF spread out over 100 gallons of diesel. So this really adds about 5 cents per gallon of diesel. Really not much. Even the guys that tow hard are still sitting in a range of 1 to 3% of diesel consumed.

And I've also used a worst case scenario for fuel economy too. With my Taurus (Also Ecoboost) in the summer it's pretty much 21-22 mpg in my mixed driving and in the winter it's 18-20 in the same loop. I'm expecting once we see warmer temps around here I'll also get better MPG in the F150 which will also wipe out the savings of Diesel.

Summer and winter gas did play a number on my 2010 F-150. I noticed a 1 to 2 mpg drop during the winter. However, on your F-150, are you configured with a max-tow crew? When looking at Fuelly, I was actually saddened when looking at average mpg's sitting around the 16 to 17mpg range for trucks with similar configuration to my F-150 which had 3.73 gears, 4x4, long bed, crew cab. So basically the biggest F-150 you could own. This is also why I'm skeptical of the new 2.7. I'm theorizing that if you have the biggest version of an F-150, you're laying into the "boost" range of the Ecoboost. The Ecoboost is only truly more economical when you're not boosting (displacement on demand). However when fully boosted you have an effective 7.3 liter gas motor (assuming 16psi of peak boost). Currently with my diesel, I'm matching or exceeding the average on the 2013 v6 F-150's with my truck (my 3-month average is sitting at 19mpg mixed city highway).

Curious on this one. For the Ecoboost it doesn't require the semi-synthetic. Pre 2011 car applications get 5w20 and post 2011 car and truck get 5w30. Holds 6 quarts of oil and can go up to 10k between changes (per Ford). For the Taurus I pay $40 at the dealer for an oil change and tire rotation. I'd expect the F150 to be the same although I'll probably change it myself and throw in some Pennzoil Ultra to clean things up as I bought it used.

Thanks, double check your owners manual. I was taken a back that my 5.4 specifically called out a semi-synthetic oil. I went ahead and found the owner's manual online for a 2013 F-150, 3rd printing (so it should be the latest stuff). Even though its 6 quarts, it is a synthetic blend that they're calling for in the US. Canada is probably a semi-synthetic or full synthetic, just probably a marketing spiel specific to Canada. This was found on page 400 on the owner's manual.

Motorcraft® SAE
5W-30 Premium
Synthetic Blend
Motor Oil (US)
•Motorcraft® SAE
5W-30 Full Synthetic
Motor Oil (US)
•Motorcraft® SAE
5W-30 Super Premium
Motor Oil (Canada)
•Motorcraft® SAE
5W-30 Synthetic Motor

You're much better off doing the service on your own if you can. Again, any lube joint in my local area will wipe the floor with you when the words "Synthetic" or "Diesel" is uttered. That's why I only use my DIY prices. Thankfully most modern engines are still serviceable for lube oil and filter.

I think repairs on, say an Ecoboost will be less than a Diesel due to the sheer volume. I was curious so I went to fordparts.com to get these prices:

High Pressure Fuel Pump for the 3.5EB: $381.52
Motorcraft Fuel Injector for the 3.5 EB: $77.12
Turbocharger - $820.00 or $754 (depending on which side)

Those are dealer prices and I'm sure there will be other sources for parts as these vehicles age. The sheer # of Ecoboosts running around guarantees that.

I think even as things age you will see less maintenance and repair costs for an Ecoboost vs a Diesel. Look around the net for the teardown pics of the EB - it is surprisingly simple.

It will be interesting to watch but I think Diesel will remain a niche. People will see the $2k add on, look at the price of Diesel and buy the gas version. Diesel makes sense in the small cars where you can get 50 MPG (vs 30 or so) in a car but not here where the fuel economy gains take so long to pay back.

Good job on getting parts prices. I still wonder what the labor will cost but it should be similar on a diesel to do the job. Glad to see the injectors are cheap, I was expecting somewhere between 100 to 200 bucks being a direct-injection unit. I guess prices have dropped from the last time I owned a direct injection vehicle (Saturn Sky Redline 2007).

On my diesel, the fuel pump on my rig is roughly a $700 proposition.
Injectors are roughly 330 a piece depending (2k for a set of 6).
Can't find my specific turbo though (HE300VG).
However, in my experience (transit), the fuel pumps last with the engine at 350-400k miles (CP3's or XPI). Turbo's and Injectors will reliably hit over 200k miles and we're planning on extending out that work (past experience had us doing this work earlier and we've been pushing this out with newer fleets). Transit is probably the worst possible way you can treat a diesel motor. Well transit and refuse trucks. So even though the potential is there, I don't expect to really have to repair this stuff in the life I own a vehicle.

However, this is all about the VM Motori diesel. Fiat is the godfather of modern common-rail diesel technology (kinda funny how I said that about an Italian company). The VM Motori has legendary reliability over in Europe that's about as hallowed as Cummins' here. However they did turn up the boost for the US market and I'm curious to see if that will have any adverse effect on that motor. Parts wise, the injectors would be much cheaper (solenoid activated) versus the Piezo injectors that my truck uses. The fuel pump will cost more (Bosch CP4). And the turbocharger is currently a mystery. All I know is that it's going to be far smaller than the snail on my diesel and probably bigger than 1 of the snails on the Ecoboost since it only uses 1 turbo.

I believe that this will be "Bust out the lawn chairs, crack open a cold one and see how it all unfolds" type of deal until the new engine drops and we start finding the weak points and the costs to repair them.