We're getting ready to purchase our first TT. We've done a little looking and like Lance quality and the 1995 model. We're willing to go with a 2016 or newer used. The only catch is that we'd like to keep the investment under 20k and I'm not sure we can do that with the Lance.One alternative we're going to look at this weekend is the Apex 191rbs. It looks like we could get a 2018 new somewhere around $16 or $17k. Then I expect there will be some add ons. Any first hand experience or opinions? We want to buy something that will last within reason.We plan to use the TT in 2 ways - for shorter local trips in beautiful NH and for at least 1 trip a year for 4+ weeks. We may want to do some boondocking in places like MT. Lance has 45g tanks/Apex 30g. Not sure what we would need for boondocking. Thanks for your help!

My grandson bought his first and last Apex. Very little use and parts are falling off. I believe it is the same model you have in mind.

The Apex is more affordable and if you're happy with the floor plan, that would work for me. There are some simple things you can do on your own to make it more weatherproof. What you want is an RV that's dry and stays that way. As long as your N.H. dealer is reputable that's what is important. If the bathroom has a small useless vent fan, I would work into the contract, a swap for a Fantastic fan with a rain cover. You'll be much happier with an attic fan that can do the whole TT . Ask about doing a Seal-Tech test . It's not too much money and will show you all the potential leak points that you can seal up before things get out of hand. http://www.sealtechusa.com/media

Thanks for the replies so far. Bobndot - thank you for the tip on the fan and Seal Tech. Little concerning I need to worry about leaks on a new RV but it's not the first time I've heard that.Red Lion, I appreciate the personal experience input. Would love to hear others input as well.

I have a 2013 Apex that was bought in 2012. It has been in hurricanes at the beach, and rain so hard you couldn't see the ocean, or the camper beside of you. It leaked ONE time. the wind was blowing the rain UP, Yes I said up. One of the speakers didn't close quick enough, and it leaked thru a speaker. NO WHERE ELSE. and didn't hurt anything since there is no wood in the walls. Nothing to rot. It is now 5 years old, and looks like new. As for insulation and weather. The APEX has AZDEL in the walls. AZDEL gives the TT 50% more insulation R value than TTs with out it. I know mine stays much cooler than the Fleetwood it replaced. I can't speak to the construction of the Lance.I will say. I had 2 catastrophic tire failures. Tires completely disappeared. The only damage to the TT was that a piece of molding was bent a little, and one of the low point drains caps spun open. But not off. So in short. I have no complaints about the APEX. Just bigger than I want. Sleeps 10, and I don't need that any more.

I have nothing against the azdel product, but I'm pretty sure there there is no 50% improvement in insulation over competitors. I think it might be 50% higher than an equivalent piece of luan, which is already quite small, as compared to the foamboard or fiberglass insulation behind it. In fact, I just found a specific comparison that bears this out: **********Quote:· 50% lighter than wood · Offers 3x the insulation value of wood**********In reality that can't be completely accurate either because I'm sure different wood has different R values.

First TT - Apex vs. Lance | Good Sam Community

36 Replies

Ralph_Cramden
Explorer II
Aug 12, 2017
FrankShore wrote:
Ralph Cramden wrote:
FrankShore wrote:
Look for yourself:

Azdel vs Luan

LOL, they use it for one layer in the sidewalls and sidewalls only, the layer behind the filon. Not the roof, floor or front and rear walls. The inner panels of the sidewall are still Luan. So when the wall leaks you only end up with half of a rotten wall. In most cases to repair that wall the entire wall is swapped at the factory. So what is gained? In the current Coachmen brochure they list the benefits of Azdel no less than 4 times. Nothing but marketing hype as its alongside such statements as "Escape from your busy life for a fun, hassle-free adventure" and "includes high end amenities usually reserved for travel trailers and
fifth wheels costing thousands of dollars more". LOL

Ralph, sorry, you're misinformed about Lance and Azdel

How so seeing that my post was about Coachmen which was in response to your link to a video about Coachmen? I do not believe I made a comment about Lance anywhere in this thread.
Winnebago_Bob
Explorer
Aug 12, 2017
Lance or the Winnebago mentioned above before any Forest River product IMO.
gmw_photos
Explorer
Aug 12, 2017
regarding the varying methods and materials used in construction of the different brands of RV's, I would suggest new or soon-to-be new owners do a LOT of homework.
Read as much as you can find, and take anything that is said by the individual manufacturers marketing department with a grain of salt.

Accurate info is out there. Buyer beware as always is the best advice.

I have yet to see any "one trailer" that has what I would consider all the best attributes. You have to make some choices and accept some compromises.

It also helps to have an understanding of production processes and how companies save money in building their products.
FrankShore
Explorer
Aug 12, 2017
Ralph Cramden wrote:
FrankShore wrote:
Look for yourself:

Azdel vs Luan

LOL, they use it for one layer in the sidewalls and sidewalls only, the layer behind the filon. Not the roof, floor or front and rear walls. The inner panels of the sidewall are still Luan. So when the wall leaks you only end up with half of a rotten wall. In most cases to repair that wall the entire wall is swapped at the factory. So what is gained? In the current Coachmen brochure they list the benefits of Azdel no less than 4 times. Nothing but marketing hype as its alongside such statements as "Escape from your busy life for a fun, hassle-free adventure" and "includes high end amenities usually reserved for travel trailers and
fifth wheels costing thousands of dollars more". LOL

Ralph, sorry, you're misinformed about Lance and Azdel
FrankShore
Explorer
Aug 12, 2017
Lance makes a great bunkhouse that comes in at 4,380 Yellow Sticker

Lance 2185

Sleeps 7
2 layers of Azdel (I don't care for anyone that talks bad abut Azdel, they're uneducated - Luan is crummy wood)
Cabinetry is Lite Ply and classy
Made using CNC Router and advanced assembly.
45 gallon black, fresh and city water tanks!
normal_dave
Explorer
Aug 11, 2017
Can't say for sure, first time I think I ran across it was July 29. I suggested it to someone in the Northeast looking for a four seasons trailer:
Creekside 20FQ New Hampshire

Keep in mind, most folks in your area would not be familiar with, or looking for one of these. For that reason, it might not be so easy to sell, since many folks won't "get" or understand the features and construction advantages. They'll just head to the nearest RV dealer, get the sales pitch, find a color they like, and sign the papers. If this Creekside checks out, and has a good story, it may be a good fit for you.

Check out the ORV owners sub-forum on that "other" RV site:

ORV vs other mfrs.

Outdoors RV owners

any Outdoors RVs on the East Coast?
Lynneh
Explorer
Aug 11, 2017
Normal Dave - I emailed and asked the question as to why they're selling and I'll talk more when I see them. She stated they bought it work a work situation which has changed. I'll chat more about that when I see it. You seem to have known about that ORV for sale...has it been up for a while?
Terryallan
Explorer II
Aug 11, 2017
goducks10 wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
goducks10 wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
In defense of the AZDEL. It was used for years in the high end MH, and has only recently became cost effective enough to be used in Medium priced TTs. If it is good enough for high end MHs. it's good enough for me.

And it is light. There are several TTs with the same floorplan as mine. They weigh from 1100 to 1500lb more. Than mine. My APEX is 30', and 4811lb per yellow sticker. They use the same appliances and componets.

I highly doubt that Azdel makes very much difference in weight even at 50% less than Luan. A sheet of 4x8' of Luan is 11 lbs. At 50% thats 5.5 lbs. If your 30' TT took 19 sheets of Azdel for all 4 walls then thats only a 95lb reduction. I think there's other areas on/in your TT that are used for weight saving.
Many other things are involved if those other TT's weigh 1100-1500 lbs more.
As for insulation values being 3x better. Well 1/8" plywood has an R value of .15. 3x .15 is .45. Again I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference on a cold or hot day with .45 more in R value.

Not dissing Azdel as it's a great product that eliminates some areas of concern. I think the main benefit is the resistance to water, not it's weight or R values.

doubt if you want. But real world. same floor plan. more than 1000lb difference. and again. In the same heat. The APEX is cooler with both using a 13.5 AC, and the APEX has much more SQ feet.

Same floor plan? I bet you could compare a lot of TT's with the same floor plan and find weights all over the place. I bet you could find one lighter than yours that uses luan.

I'll let you do it. Find a 30' bunkhouse, with slide that weighs less than 4800lb yellow sticker. Then, Get back to me.
goducks10
Explorer
Aug 11, 2017
Terryallan wrote:
goducks10 wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
In defense of the AZDEL. It was used for years in the high end MH, and has only recently became cost effective enough to be used in Medium priced TTs. If it is good enough for high end MHs. it's good enough for me.

And it is light. There are several TTs with the same floorplan as mine. They weigh from 1100 to 1500lb more. Than mine. My APEX is 30', and 4811lb per yellow sticker. They use the same appliances and componets.

I highly doubt that Azdel makes very much difference in weight even at 50% less than Luan. A sheet of 4x8' of Luan is 11 lbs. At 50% thats 5.5 lbs. If your 30' TT took 19 sheets of Azdel for all 4 walls then thats only a 95lb reduction. I think there's other areas on/in your TT that are used for weight saving.
Many other things are involved if those other TT's weigh 1100-1500 lbs more.
As for insulation values being 3x better. Well 1/8" plywood has an R value of .15. 3x .15 is .45. Again I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference on a cold or hot day with .45 more in R value.

Not dissing Azdel as it's a great product that eliminates some areas of concern. I think the main benefit is the resistance to water, not it's weight or R values.

doubt if you want. But real world. same floor plan. more than 1000lb difference. and again. In the same heat. The APEX is cooler with both using a 13.5 AC, and the APEX has much more SQ feet.

Same floor plan? I bet you could compare a lot of TT's with the same floor plan and find weights all over the place. I bet you could find one lighter than yours that uses luan.
normal_dave
Explorer
Aug 11, 2017
Forgot about that Creekside in NH... fwiw, you may have already noted it is the same trailer box as the ORV Black Rock 20RD above, just dressed up more. The Creekside is setup to be a little more campground/rv park friendly, but still has the rugged construction.

Curious about why the seller is moving on after a short time? It certainly looks good, and is priced right if it is a good fit for your needs. Appears they are including an equalizer WD hitch, and all accessories, (big bonus), and if there are no surprises, you'd have a hard time getting a better small trailer than that one.