Ford F150 is going Powerstroke Diesel

If I take that $8,000.00 purchase price difference and invest it and get 4% per year, after 5 years I make up that $1200.00 difference plus another $500. Anything above 4% is an extra added bonus. My 10 year Average Annualized Return is currently 7.48%, and you don't even want to hear what my 5 year AAR is.

I won't even mention the difference in insurance cost, which would also probably cover that $1200 over 5 years plus some.

theoldwizard1 wrote:


You probably need to drive at least 50k/year and hauling/towing a load most of the time for diesel to pay off in ANY PICKUP TRUCK !

I would not say "ANY PICKUP TRUCK".  Then what happens to the $4,000-6,000 that you can sale a diesel HD pickup for at resale over the gas version?  Does that just disappear or does it does it go back into the "pay off".  Then factor in that you get much greater towing performance for those many years and the small amount that you pay up in the long run starts to become worth it. 

Diesel HD truck: better towing performance, but higher up front cost
Purchase price: $50,000
Fuel cost over 100k(diesel being $3.00 and 16 mpg): $20,800
Resale 5 years later:$31,000

Total cost: $39,800


Gas HD Trucks: Lower up front cost, but less towing performance.
Purchase price: $42,000
Fuel cost over 100K(with gas being $2.50 at 12 mpg): $25,000
Resale 5 years later: $26,000

Total cost:$41,000
 

These are just basic numbers and not factoring in preventive maintenance among some other things, but are roughly in the ball park of what to expect of an HD truck in terms of value. So as you can see, with only recouping $5k of the $8k up front cost will put you ahead at 100k when all of the diesel warranties end.  And this is with diesel being $.50 higher which is generally only during the winter and is only about $.25 higher in the summer according to the Department of Energy data. 

All this and you get better towing performance, but this is not the case for the small diesels in half tons where you get lower towing performance than the gas equivalent and the amount saved is generally less.

tomman58 wrote:
If you are really going to haul...... get a truck designed to do it not a 150!
Everything other than the engine isn't designed for those loads and handling. I really don't give a care about what the engine would do in the winds of Oklahoma or the mountains of west. When you need heavy springs and brakes and tires and wheels they aren't going to be there and if you up grade to have this stuff you could own at least a 2500.

But how many people aren't "really going to haul" and need a compromise between a commuter vehicle and a tow vehicle? My friend has a Durango as his wife's commuter vehicle and his tow vehicle. He simply can't get a regular pickup truck that gets 15 mpg for his commute, which is 90% of his miles per year, and he doesn't need a 3/4 ton truck to pull his 5000 lbs trailer to 10 trips a year.

I tried to get him to look at the Ecodiesel before he bought the Durango, but his wife refused to drive a pickup.

This could be the vehicle that can get 30 mpg in daily driving conditions AND have enough power to tow a small to mid size camper AND have enough payload to carry the necessary accoutrement associated with family camping. Sounds like a winner to me. The problem that I see is COST... especially if Ford won't offer it in lower trim packages.

mkirsch wrote:


MARGINALLY better fuel economy for substantially better performance.

The mini-diesels offer SUBSTANTIALLY better fuel economy with marginally less performance. Maybe.

Actually that is not necessarily true in regards to actual savings. You have to factor in that a fuel mileage increase on an engine that gets less fuel economy has more of an impact than one that gets better fuel economy.

For example, going from a Ram 6.4L gas that gets of 12 mpg(according to Fuelly) to the Cummins with better towing performance that gets 16 mpg(4 mpg increase), you will gain $312 a year if you drive 15,000 miles and gas being $2.50 with diesel $.50 higher. Going from a Ram 5.7L that gets a combined 16 mpg to an Ecodiesel with much less towing performance that gets 22 mpg(6 mpg increase) is only a $298 savings a year using the same fuel prices and annual mileage.

So even though the diesel in half ton has a greater mpg increase numerically, it does not necessarily mean more savings. The higher the fuel economy the truck you are comparing the diesel to has, the greater the fuel economy increase will needed to be to benefit.

mkirsch wrote:
You gotta remember the gas engines make those HP/TQ numbers at high RPMs. The diesels will be cranking out 440ft-lbs down in the lower RPMs where it is useful.

Not all gas engines. The Ecoboost makes 470 lb-ft between 2,250-3,500 rpm, and has another 125 hp more than this diesel

Ralph Cramden wrote:

No matter what some say, at 40 to 50 cents per gallon more for fuel, even with the better mpg you'll need to go quite a few miles, tens of thousands yearly, before reaching the break even point. That's without even factoring in the upfront increased hard cost which there will be. May work for some, not for most, because 95% or more of the average Joe's out there never tow anything. Niche market.

This sums it up quite nicely !

You probably need to drive at least 50k/year and hauling/towing a load most of the time for diesel to pay off in ANY PICKUP TRUCK !

FishOnOne wrote:

kw/00 wrote:
With that much power and a potential payload of 2020 lbs, it may not be that bad of a truck. Its impressive to see a 3.0 diesel hitting those figures. I am curious what the new GM diesel numbers will be....

Expect GM's to be best in class HP and Torque

I don't know about that...

They will fight the same issue Ram does....inline 6s aren't high HP producers when compared to the V6/V8 cousins. Torque, yes, hp, no.

If my trailer was under 10k lbs and if I had both a new diesel 1 ton dually and a diesel 1/2 ton I would tow my trailer with the 1/2 ton. I am very impressed with the way the f150 rides.

If you are really going to haul...... get a truck designed to do it not a 150!
Everything other than the engine isn't designed for those loads and handling. I really don't give a care about what the engine would do in the winds of Oklahoma or the mountains of west. When you need heavy springs and brakes and tires and wheels they aren't going to be there and if you up grade to have this stuff you could own at least a 2500.

IdaD wrote:
The little diesel market is a different animal than the Cummins, Powerstroke and Duramax in the HD market - those offer better fuel economy as well as substantially better performance.

MARGINALLY better fuel economy for substantially better performance.

The mini-diesels offer SUBSTANTIALLY better fuel economy with marginally less performance. Maybe.

You gotta remember the gas engines make those HP/TQ numbers at high RPMs. The diesels will be cranking out 440ft-lbs down in the lower RPMs where it is useful.

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
If Ford gets it right they will sell a ton of them. No mater what some of you say, a gas verses diesel engine in the same vehicle will always have the diesel out in front in the MPG benchmark. My little 3.0 can make 32 mpg all day long and at 77 mph it makes 27.8 mpg. The Ecoboost can't come anywhere close to that at the same speeds. Now if diesel jumps to a buck or more then gas than your savings are equal but the towing still goes to the diesel.

My guess is Ford will end up over pricing it and that would be the only thing that would keep them from selling a ton of them.

Don

No matter what some say, at 40 to 50 cents per gallon more for fuel, even with the better mpg you'll need to go quite a few miles, tens of thousands yearly, before reaching the break even point. That's without even factoring in the upfront increased hard cost which there will be. May work for some, not for most, because 95% or more of the average Joe's out there never tow anything. Niche market. Most fleet buyers will still go with the F250 or 350. One thing I would never do is buy the first model year produced, and maybe the 2nd, that's with Ford or anyone else. I'm sure Ford will get it right, but I for one have been a member of their testing and R&D department before unvoluntarily, as well as GM a few times, and never will again.

If your towing often, why one would not go with the beefier, everything from brakes to frame, and full floater, that you get with the heavier diesel truck. Even if you are towing a lighter, smaller rig, than you get with a glorified 1/2 ton. But it's not my money. Whatever floats it for you.

Yep, even Ford only expects a 5% take rate.

Trucks.com wrote:
Ford expects a 5 percent of F-Series buyers to opt for the diesel, Filipe said. But its Dagenham Engine Plant in Essex, England, where the engine is built, will be prepared to meet increased demand.

Ford Aims for 30 MPG With Launch of F-150 Diesel Engine

I said 10% earlier because I wanted to be overly optimistic for this little diesel. Heck, even Ram and GM don't expect more than a 15% take rate on their small diesels. Only a very small percent of half ton truck buyers will actually benefit from the savings. Small diesels in big trucks is one of those things that sounds great until you actually go drive one, put pen to paper on the savings, and compare this to other more powerful engines. Most will be willing to pay $25 more each month in fuel for more powerful engine options so the fuel savings is a moot point to them.