Ford F150 is going Powerstroke Diesel

So you're spending more for fuel, spending more for the engine, spending more for insurance, losing out on the interest by keeping your money invested, and think you're going to make that all up by getting 4 more mpg.

I Got to get some of that stuff you're smoking.

IdaD wrote:

There is a certain humorous element to a guy with a gas Laramie truck explaining how a diesel isn't worth the expense. But we all value things differently. My willingness to spend more for diesel but not for the lux options is no better or worse, just different.

Yeah, it is funny. I remember commending an acquaintance of mine about his new F250 King Ranch 6.2L purchase. While talking about it he went on and on about how expensive diesels were and how they just aren't worth it. I tried to tell him that the diesel option is just like any other higher priced option on his truck that you will recoup most back on resale, but the only difference is that the diesel option may be the only truck option that will gain you money over the long run due to fuel economy.

He could not understand that spending $8k on the diesel option is no different than spending the same amount on any other option on the truck like his King Ranch trim package(which he spent $18k on). You can have two people spend $50k on a truck, one with a XL trim package and a diesel or one with a Lariat package and a gas engine. Both would resale for roughly the same amount five years down the line except the dieseled option truck would probably save you money in the long run due to the better fuel economy. Neither choice is wrong, and it just depends on what options you want most in a truck.

I think many of the "diesel is too expensive" high trim owner crowd do not see it this way. They see it as they want a Lariat or Laramie trimmed truck, and a diesel is an optional add on from there. In reality, spending money on the Lariat/Laramie trim option is more important to them than spending money on the diesel option. Nothing more, and there is nothing wrong with that. What ever floats your boat...

On a side note, can you imagine what the comments would be like if you said the same things about you not getting a Laramie trim option that others her say about the diesel option. "You will never get your money back in a Laramie trim package unless you drive it 50k a year". Lol!!

ShinerBock wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
How many people do I think bought $8,000.00 worth of extra trim packages instead of the diesel?

NONE!

A lot, the Laramie trim package on an HD is an $6.5k upgrade over the SLT, the Lariat is a $6.5K upgrade over the XLT, and the High Country is a $5.6k option over LTZ. This is just for the package and nothing else extra like 4x4. I see a lot of HD gasers in these trim packages that could have spent that money on a diesel with a lower trim package option.

Instead, the trim package option was more important to them than the diesel option(and there is nothing wrong with that). The only difference is that while the trim package option does allow for a higher resale value negating most of the up front cost for the option, it does not save you in fuel costs or adds to towing performance like the diesel option does.

There is a certain humorous element to a guy with a gas Laramie truck explaining how a diesel isn't worth the expense. But we all value things differently. My willingness to spend more for diesel but not for the lux options is no better or worse, just different.

Not apples to apples when comparing gasoline vs diesel

'normally' gasoline has around 114,000 BTU's per US gallon. Diesel has around 129,000 BTU's per US gallon

So about a 1.13 factor. Meaning take the diesel MPG and divide it by 1.13 to get the equivalent or normalized MPG...AKA apples compared to apples

Never the less, diesel has more energy per unit measure over gasoline, so it should have higher MPG's per US Gallon

The other factor is that diesel ICE's have a much higher compression ratio. That factors large...as the bottom line is PSI on the piston top that produces torque...therefore HP

ON that, gasoline will detonate at those higher compression ratios. Just the laws of physics....unless you can get a gasoline ICE to employ diesel levels of compression ratio without detonation...

Too bad work on GDCI development has slowed...though there are still some corporations still working on it.

First, gotta say am not a diesel person. Never have been...except for a serious period looking into diesel during the late 90's and into the early 2000's. One buddy smoked us all with his 7.3L Ford Excursion...to find he had a tune and propane injection...

Saw the SMOG freight train coming and decided to stick to gasoline, my favorite, but started gathering info on diesel

Saw the patents being filed and how onerous the testing/certification must be...because of all of that stuff being patented. Mainly the +20,000 PSI injection systems and that electronic chips were stacked in series, INSIDE THE INJECTOR, to be able to pulse/spray fast enough during ONE combustion cycle. Knew those injectors were not going to last very long...though they do last longer than thought...and the why they cost so much. Silicone Chips inside a tube pushing AGAINST +20,000 PSI fluid to open the valve to inject into the combustion chamber *AND* slammed shut by that 20,000 PSI flow when they are turned off to close that flow...holy cow !!!

GDCI (Gasoline DirectInjection Compression Ignition...no spark plug...ignition just like diesel), but with more gasoline attributes

Delphi paper on GDCI

Biggie for me...there is a potential to bring back big blocks using GDCI !!!!

Don't really understand stand the need. Price probably not a whole lot less than the 250/2500.

troubledwaters wrote:
How many people do I think bought $8,000.00 worth of extra trim packages instead of the diesel?

NONE!

A lot, the Laramie trim package on an HD is $6.5k upgrade over the SLT(which is not the lowest package), the Lariat is a $6.5K upgrade over the XLT(which is not the lowest package), and the High Country is a $5.6k option over LTZ(which is not the lowest package). This is just for the package and nothing else extra like 4x4. I see a lot of HD gasers in these trim packages that could have spent that money on a diesel with a lower trim package option.

Instead, the trim package option was more important to them than the diesel option(and there is nothing wrong with that). The only difference is that while the trim package option does allow for a higher resale value negating most of the up front cost for the option, it does not save you in fuel costs or adds to towing performance like the diesel option does.

How many people do I think bought $8,000.00 worth of extra trim packages instead of the diesel?

NONE!

Why you out in the weeds now? Just Apples to Apples buddy - Real World Apples to Apples. You're the one the used the $50,000.00 / $42,000.00 "comparable" example, not me.

troubledwaters wrote:
While your talking "If"s what if diesel goes to $1.00 above gas? We can talk "If's" all day long. In the end, I was just using todays real world numbers just like you.

Okay, so is that would you did with the money not saved on the upfront cost of a diesel? And how many people do you think actually did that instead of just using that money to upgrade other options like a higher trim package or on other stuff?

I am talking what actually happens with most people who own these trucks, not "IF's" that hardly ever happens if it even happens at all.

While your talking "If"s what if diesel goes to $1.00 above gas? What if I use my 5 year AAR? We can talk "If's" all day long. In the end, I was just using Todays Real World Numbers just like you.

People like me that tow 5% - 10% of the time and use it as a Daily Driver 90% - 95% of the time don't give a rats ass about the "added" towing performance. Good enough is good enough.

troubledwaters wrote:
If I take that $8,000.00 purchase price difference and invest it and get 4% per year, after 5 years I make up that $1200.00 difference plus another $500. Anything above 4% is an extra added bonus. My 10 year Average Annualized Return is currently 7.48%, and you don't even want to hear what my 5 year AAR is.

You said "IF", but is that what you or most HD gas truck owners do? Let's talk real world here and not "IF's".

IF you want to start getting into "IF's". Then I can go into the IF of dropping the fuel cost difference to $.25 for half the year(since that is what it does according to the DoE) which would drop the fuel cost for the diesel over 100k to $18,000. This would drop the total cost to $37,000 which puts it at $4,000 ahead. I can also get into the "IF's" of towing mileage since that is what these HD trucks are used for.

Heck, even if the diesel was $2,000 more over the course of 5 years, I pretty sure most diesel owners would gladly pay an additional $400 a year for that added towing performance.