found soft spot in floor

Before doing anything, you need to figure out what your floor is made of. I had a drain leaking under the shower. The connection just came a little loose and needed tightening up, very simple. It does that about once every couple years. I figure its from the movement of the camper on the road and use.

Anyway, I read your post earlier today and when I was under my shower jsut now to fix the drip, I took a second look at my floor and how its constructed. It's NOT what I thought at all.

Mine is a sheet of linoleum on top of a 1 1/4 inch styrofoam sandwiched between 2 - 3/8 inch plywood sheets. That is laid on the cross beams, which are laid on the main frame.

My camper is all aluminum framing, and all the walls are styrofoam sandwiched between paneling and outside luma. So, basically, my camper will never decay because of wood rot. There simply is no wood to rot!

I have a soft spot in front of the kitchen sink, that's about a foot square also. I know it's not soft because of water. I do now know, it's soft simply because of my 230 pounds standing on it! But it's far, far, far from breaking, collapsing, or failing, and definitely not in need of any replacing.

While I was there, I took some photos, namely so I can watch for any more problems with the drain pipe leaking (I cleaned up the pipe too) and can have a comparison for future reference. I like to document everything, especially with photos as the time and date stamp is on each one.

Meanwhile, here's what my floor actually looks like under the shower.

First photo is to give a bit of perspective, second photo is looking inside the hole right under the shower stall door.

It sounds like leak prevention has been an afterthought. I'd suggest to do an interior pressurized leak test. That will reveal any structural leaking. You can check plumbing supplies and drains by operating them. Check tightness of plastic drains while you're there.

Maybe since it's such a small spot, and if it is not really soft you can fix the leak and don't worry about it. My floor in my 1993 TT has some soft spots but, I have the problem solved and since the spots are not hurting anything I just live with them.

DutchmenSport wrote:
Before doing anything, you need to figure out what your floor is made of. I had a drain leaking under the shower. The connection just came a little loose and needed tightening up, very simple. It does that about once every couple years. I figure its from the movement of the camper on the road and use.

Anyway, I read your post earlier today and when I was under my shower jsut now to fix the drip, I took a second look at my floor and how its constructed. It's NOT what I thought at all.

Mine is a sheet of linoleum on top of a 1 1/4 inch styrofoam sandwiched between 2 - 3/8 inch plywood sheets. That is laid on the cross beams, which are laid on the main frame.

My camper is all aluminum framing, and all the walls are styrofoam sandwiched between paneling and outside luma. So, basically, my camper will never decay because of wood rot. There simply is no wood to rot!

I have a soft spot in front of the kitchen sink, that's about a foot square also. I know it's not soft because of water. I do now know, it's soft simply because of my 230 pounds standing on it! But it's far, far, far from breaking, collapsing, or failing, and definitely not in need of any replacing.

While I was there, I took some photos, namely so I can watch for any more problems with the drain pipe leaking (I cleaned up the pipe too) and can have a comparison for future reference. I like to document everything, especially with photos as the time and date stamp is on each one.

Meanwhile, here's what my floor actually looks like under the shower.

First photo is to give a bit of perspective, second photo is looking inside the hole right under the shower stall door.

Thanks for the info DutchmenSport,

I have the same shower and access door.

Is there a resource that outlines the construction details of travel trailer brands?

The spot is definitely a problem. It's almost a perfect circle and very soft. So I doubt it's going to be something other than rot.

Any thought as to removing the undercarriage skin and accessing things from there?

I assume there is possibly regular fiberglass insulation underneath. I also assume it will fall out when I remove the skin.

Maybe I should just cut the linoleum back.

iso

westend wrote:
It sounds like leak prevention has been an afterthought. I'd suggest to do an interior pressurized leak test. That will reveal any structural leaking. You can check plumbing supplies and drains by operating them. Check tightness of plastic drains while you're there.

An afterthought? Not really.

An uneducated rv person, yes.

I assume the pressurized leak test is for the plumbing system?

I have been on the roof a few times and visually inspected all the lap sealant etc. I have never noticed any problems. However, if subtle pinholes can let in that much water, than that is something I cant prevent. In which case people should not bother inspecting all the seams on a TT roof and just keep putting on loads of lap sealant every year.

Everytime I look at these seams it's impossible to tell if there are any pinholes. Between the bumpy texture of the lap sealant and dirt that covers things, pinholes can easily get unnoticed. Even after cleaning the seams it's tough to tell.

The system these companies use to build these things is horrible.
These TT have flat roofs, with a rubber membrane and there are 10 items penetrating the roof, antennae's, vents, AC units, solar panels, ladders etc etc. It's just a combination for a disaster.

To make matters worse, they use luan roof panels, OSB subfloors and wood framing.

I understand it's the nature of things, it's just a little annoying to try and prevent leaks when the system is not designed well.

I take all the precautions I know how. I cant prevent them all if I cant see the problems. I visually inspect the inside of the trailer and always feel the walls and floors for any signs of wetness or softness. Thats how I found out the water heater drain plug flange lets water in from the outside.

If pipes running underneath the subfloor have sprung a small leak and are wetting the subfloor, thats impossible to find. It's hidden.

The AC thing is definitely my fault. After some researching I didn't know they were a major source of water problems. I didn't know I was supposed to tighten the bolts to make sure they have not come loose. (I don't move the trailer, it's static)
I didn't know I need to dismantle it, remove it from the roof and check the seal to see if it needs to be replaced. Now I do.

iso

If it’s near the fridge check the little drain. It’s super flemsy tubing and can dry rot or get bugs in it. It should have some kind of direct route to the outside of the coach. Check it from the outside. It may even require removing the refrigerator.

campigloo wrote:
If it’s near the fridge check the little drain. It’s super flemsy tubing and can dry rot or get bugs in it. It should have some kind of direct route to the outside of the coach. Check it from the outside. It may even require removing the refrigerator.

Thanks campigloo, I will check that.

I checked the slide-out which is across from the area. I removed the couch and peeled back the carpet and the OSB is bone dry there.

So I am thinking, if it is from the roof that should rule out that side of the TT. I am hoping the damage does not go under the refrigerator area or the sink cabinet area. I really would hate to have to dismantle and remove those to replace the subfloor under there.
Or worse if the damage is in the bathroom. I cant imagine removing the sink, shower and toilet will be easy.

I am ordering a few rolls of the eternabond tape.

I already have a few tubes of lap sealant.

iso

DutchmenSport wrote:


I have a soft spot in front of the kitchen sink, that's about a foot square also. I know it's not soft because of water. I do now know, it's soft simply because of my 230 pounds standing on it! But it's far, far, far from breaking, collapsing, or failing, and definitely not in need of any replacing.

While I was there, I took some photos, namely so I can watch for any more problems with the drain pipe leaking (I cleaned up the pipe too) and can have a comparison for future reference. I like to document everything, especially with photos as the time and date stamp is on each one.

Too funny. Towards the end of the 2016 camping season I noticed the vinyl floor in front of my fridge appeared to be coming loose from the subfloor. Was sort of developing that bubble type feeling. Since my fridge and stove are on a slide this is a lot of weight going over the floor all the time. Also around that time my slide got a little out of adjustment and would sort of hop as it went across the floor.

In any event I chaulked the issue up to the above and not water damage. Camped the entire season in 2017.

Got it out of storage end of March 2018. I was getting worried that maybe the soft area was water from the kitchen sink in front of the slide that is on an island may be leaking slowly causing the issue.

Took it to my RV tech 2 weeks ago and he said no leaks from sink lines or drain lines and no water getting in from underneath. He did a water meter test and poked through the floor and the meter did not measure any different. He thinks the floor is just starting to deteriorate as there is a large cross beam under the area and maybe just the weight of the slide constantly going over the area has finally started to break down the floor which is just Styrofoam sandwiched between thin luan.

We bought the camper September 2013 and this issue was not noticed until end of 2016. I am glad your issue which appears identical to mine was not water as I have a hard time thinking it wasn't.

Cecilt wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:


I have a soft spot in front of the kitchen sink, that's about a foot square also. I know it's not soft because of water. I do now know, it's soft simply because of my 230 pounds standing on it! But it's far, far, far from breaking, collapsing, or failing, and definitely not in need of any replacing.

While I was there, I took some photos, namely so I can watch for any more problems with the drain pipe leaking (I cleaned up the pipe too) and can have a comparison for future reference. I like to document everything, especially with photos as the time and date stamp is on each one.

Too funny. Towards the end of the 2016 camping season I noticed the vinyl floor in front of my fridge appeared to be coming loose from the subfloor. Was sort of developing that bubble type feeling. Since my fridge and stove are on a slide this is a lot of weight going over the floor all the time. Also around that time my slide got a little out of adjustment and would sort of hop as it went across the floor.

In any event I chaulked the issue up to the above and not water damage. Camped the entire season in 2017.

Got it out of storage end of March 2018. I was getting worried that maybe the soft area was water from the kitchen sink in front of the slide that is on an island may be leaking slowly causing the issue.

Took it to my RV tech 2 weeks ago and he said no leaks from sink lines or drain lines and no water getting in from underneath. He did a water meter test and poked through the floor and the meter did not measure any different. He thinks the floor is just starting to deteriorate as there is a large cross beam under the area and maybe just the weight of the slide constantly going over the area has finally started to break down the floor which is just Styrofoam sandwiched between thin luan.

We bought the camper September 2013 and this issue was not noticed until end of 2016. I am glad your issue which appears identical to mine was not water as I have a hard time thinking it wasn't.

This thread has me seriously thinking about laying a 1/4 inch sheet of plywood on top of the floor at my sink area. It would be cut to fit so the slide will not hit it when retracted, and not so annoying we'll be tripping over it. I'd cover it with some carpet material to make it look like a throw rug, or even buy a throw rug to staple to it. It would look like a throw rug in front of the sink and this would give a little more support at that one spot and maybe keep further breakdown of the Styrofoam from happening, as body weight would be distributed over a larger area that way.

The more I think about this, the more I think I may do it. It's simple and would provide a little extra support without having to add, alter, tear up, or fix anything.

Maybe the OP could do something similar and not have to tear up his floor.

isonychia wrote:

westend wrote:
It sounds like leak prevention has been an afterthought. I'd suggest to do an interior pressurized leak test. That will reveal any structural leaking. You can check plumbing supplies and drains by operating them. Check tightness of plastic drains while you're there.

An afterthought? Not really.

An uneducated rv person, yes.

I assume the pressurized leak test is for the plumbing system?

I have been on the roof a few times and visually inspected all the lap sealant etc. I have never noticed any problems. However, if subtle pinholes can let in that much water, than that is something I cant prevent. In which case people should not bother inspecting all the seams on a TT roof and just keep putting on loads of lap sealant every year.

Everytime I look at these seams it's impossible to tell if there are any pinholes. Between the bumpy texture of the lap sealant and dirt that covers things, pinholes can easily get unnoticed. Even after cleaning the seams it's tough to tell.

The system these companies use to build these things is horrible.
These TT have flat roofs, with a rubber membrane and there are 10 items penetrating the roof, antennae's, vents, AC units, solar panels, ladders etc etc. It's just a combination for a disaster.

To make matters worse, they use luan roof panels, OSB subfloors and wood framing.

I understand it's the nature of things, it's just a little annoying to try and prevent leaks when the system is not designed well.

I take all the precautions I know how. I cant prevent them all if I cant see the problems. I visually inspect the inside of the trailer and always feel the walls and floors for any signs of wetness or softness. Thats how I found out the water heater drain plug flange lets water in from the outside.

If pipes running underneath the subfloor have sprung a small leak and are wetting the subfloor, thats impossible to find. It's hidden.

The AC thing is definitely my fault. After some researching I didn't know they were a major source of water problems. I didn't know I was supposed to tighten the bolts to make sure they have not come loose. (I don't move the trailer, it's static)
I didn't know I need to dismantle it, remove it from the roof and check the seal to see if it needs to be replaced. Now I do.

iso

The pressure test introduces a large volume of air into the interior of the structure (accomplished with various blowers) and a soap solution is sprayed onto the exterior, including the roof. Any pinhole or void will bubble up readily.



I understand your opinions on the membrane roofs. IMO, they aren't a good solution to a transported house. They do require continued maintenance unless......you discover Eternabond tapes. The tapes are time consuming to install because the surface needs to be immacuately clean (think solvent clean) but, after installation, they guarantee a leak-less seam. There are many on this Forum that advocate for Dicor lap sealant, preferring to add some over existing seam sealant. They report no leaks so both systems have adherents.

The AC seal is what it is. If the gasket is observable to be intact and your confience is up, you could try tightening the bolts. I'd opt to remove the bolts, pull the AC and install a new gasket. Age does have her ways.

Getting back to the flooring issue: A composite panel floor made from a sandwich of plywood sheathing and foam is a disaster waiting to happen. The interior plywood sheathing is not rated for floor use so any loosening of the foam to the plywood skin results in a failure of the panel. These composite panels are good for walls and roof applications but fail as floor systems. The repair is to remove interior faced plywood and flooring, exposing the foam (or what remains of it intact), installing a filler that will adhere to the new plywood floor sheathing replacement (typically spray foam). Install new flooring.

If you're blessed with a conventional floor rated floor sheathing attached to floor joists, repair is much easier. Flooring is removed, plywood is examined for failure and replaced as needed. Any damage to floor joists from water leakage or rot can be replaced or ledgered from the interior.

FWIW, after I removed the carpet inside my trailer, I ended up cutting the plywood sheathing out to both repair rot damage in two areas and to install foam board in the empty joist cavities.
The under belly of my trailer is a continuous aluminum skin, it provides excellent water shedding.

If you have an assumed plumbing leak or need to inspect the floor from beneath the trailer, both Coroplast or spun fabric can be removed and reinstalled. A search of the Forum should turn up a lot of hits and tips.

Again, I'd suggest to pressurize the interior to locate any or all leaks. Some guys do it with a leaf blower. I use a conventional furnace blower that I mount on a ladder and blow through a removable sash opening in a vinyl window. If this Forum was more friendly about "stickying" instructions for some of these maintenance procedures, I'd capture the process and submit it. I just got tired of listing the whole process. Maybe a search will find one of those threads.

Good luck on finding the leaks and repairs. You're not alone with this. ;)