Forum Discussion
219 Replies
- Racerchaser27ExplorerI switched last year from towing my 30' 7000# TT with my wifes Ford Expedition (5.4 V8), to my new to me 2008 Dodge 2500 with a 6.7 Cummins 6sp auto. The Expedition did a fantastic job. Wasn't going to win any uphill drag races with it, but handled many years of towing with ease. The Dodge though, no contest. The ease in which the Cummins tows the trailer is amazing, and unlike the 5.9's, which are undoubtedly bulletproof, there is no diesel drone. Its as quiet as heck in the cab. We take the same trip from New Brunswick, Canada to Loudon, New Hampshire for the Sprint Cup Races every September, and keep receipts just to keep track of fuel burned. (Dunno why, just to torture ourselves I guess!LOL) With the Expedition, we burned approx. $300 U.S. in fuel round trip at 55 mph. Last year with the Cummins, $280 U.S. in fuel at 65 mph. Pretty comparable pricewise, due to the higher price of diesel vs gas, but the ease that the diesel tows is incredible, and honestly, its so much more relaxing towing with the Dodge. I would have no issues towing again with a gasser, but now that I have a taste of a diesel, you'd have a hard time getting me to switch back!
- Ric_FlairExplorerNot sure if is was mentioned, but horsepower is a linear calculation derived from torque, which is non-linear, or rotational measure since an engine generates it's power by rotating the crankshaft.
HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252 (this is why torque always equals HP at 5252 RPMs)
In other words, torque is what matters when towing a load, and it's especially important at what RPM it's made. The more it makes earlier, the better. If you have to turn a higher RPM to generate the same amount of work, you'll be using more fuel to do it because parasitic loss increases as RPMs increase.
Now if you're talking about winning a drag race, that's a whole other story. - wilber1Explorer
Turtle n Peeps wrote:
wilber1 wrote:
Airstreamer67 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
ACZL wrote:
Real motors don't have spark plugs!
Real motors don't have glow plugs either!;)
Real motors don't have liquid fuel either, but Watts?
That's what I was taught as well. Engines burn fuel, motors are electric.
You were taught wrong. Motors are all inclusive. Engines are not.
Not according to my aircraft maintenance instructors at BCIT and in my over 45 years in aviation, engines were never referred to as motors, so I guess it depends on where you come from. - Turtle_n_PeepsExplorer
wilber1 wrote:
Airstreamer67 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
ACZL wrote:
Real motors don't have spark plugs!
Real motors don't have glow plugs either!;)
Real motors don't have liquid fuel either, but Watts?
That's what I was taught as well. Engines burn fuel, motors are electric.
You were taught wrong. Motors are all inclusive. Engines are not. - wilber1Explorer
Airstreamer67 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
ACZL wrote:
Real motors don't have spark plugs!
Real motors don't have glow plugs either!;)
Real motors don't have liquid fuel either, but Watts?
That's what I was taught as well. Engines burn fuel, motors are electric. - transamz9ExplorerMy tires are louder than the hummm. My tires sound like a female choir going "hummm". LOL! I do hear my 4" turbo back though.
- HannibalExplorerWhy not gear it to run 1600rpm or lower at 75mph? No need to run such high rpm under light load with the Cummins. Never owned or had a desire to own a glow plug diesel.
Yes the Cummins is in a league of it's own.
My 5.4L emits a nice V8 sound at 35-4000rpm while towing our 5th wheel up to speed. 2900rpm with the Cummins is hummin' right along too. 60-70rpm is chugging along. 2k-3k rpm is a blur. Screaming as you say.
Low rpm puts more strain on the lower end of an engine causing faster crank and journal bearing wear. High rpm wears the top end. I like to trade at around 100-150k miles. Some like to pretend they'll keep their diesels forever. Forever usually comes with the next model update.
While towing, my truck is doing the work. I'm sitting in the a/c listening to classic rewind on Sirius while the engine and transmission do their thing with cruise and tow/haul making the decisions about rpm and gear selection. Not a problem. Swinging a 4 lb hammer is work. I have one.
My '03 was an ISBe "quiet" Cummins. You can tune out the clatter but you can't tune out the Cummins humm. I've heard the new ones. I like the sound of the Cummins as well as a V8 gasser under load. Neither is objectionably loud. Why limit yourself. There's more than one flavor to choose from. - transamz9Explorer
Hannibal wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
Your truck don't weigh 11,000# either. I know you are going to say that most trucks don't weigh that and you are right but this is a "tow vehicle" thread and when you hook weight behind your gasser you can not hold a gear.
I know all about the multiplying of the torque. I think a real truck should be able to run at GVWR and do easily without all of the gear changes. I'm not asking it to tow something, hell it's not even at it GVWR and at interstate speeds it should be able to hold high gear. This truck has 4:10's with short 16" tires, it should not have to multiply torque to hold it.
The obsession with OD is that I get tired of hearing it run at 3500- 4000 RPM's just pulling it's own weight. With my sick-o , which is a 1000+ more pounds, cruise in OD at around 2250 and nothing but wind noise. Just a lot more comfortable atmosphere on an hour and a half ride to work at 6am or any time for that matter;)
I'm still not seeing a problem. Shifting is a normal function of our tow vehicles. How do you manage to drive around town? All that shifting must be torture. Surely you aren't going to tell me your truck stays in O/D all day. If it were as bad as you claim it to be, I would be in my 5th Cummins Ram by now. But that's just not the case. And why is your truck geared to run 2250 instead of at or below peak torque rpm? Seems like you're using an excessive amount of torque multiplication. I remember well the Cummins Humm. You might stop in at CVS and pick up some Q-tips.:p
The 2250 I speak of is my Furd sick.o company truck. It has 4.11's under it. The sick.o's torque is at a higher RPM than my Cummins. My Cummins runs 2,000 RPM's @ 75.
I'm not even talking about my Cummins. That is in a whole other league than these Fords I'm talking about.
Yes the diesels shift until you get up to speed but they don't have to scream to 35-4000 RPMs to be able to shift into the next gear and they defiantly don't have to shift back down to hold a speed.
Me and you are just going to have to agree that we look at things differently. You look at it turning twice the RPMs to get the task done as it's doing it's thing and I look at it as it's wearing the motor and transmission twice as fast as it needs to.
You probably drive tent stakes with a 16oz hammer, but I do it with a 4 lb hammer. We both get the same results I'm just not as tired because I just let the hammer do the work instead of having to force the hammer to do the work.;)
You also remember the old Cummins humm. I don't here my Cummins and I know you can't here the new ones. The gas motors now days are louder at speed than the diesels. - HannibalExplorer
Airstreamer67 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
ACZL wrote:
Real motors don't have spark plugs!
Real motors don't have glow plugs either!;)
Real motors don't have liquid fuel either, but Watts?
Watts would be fuel consumption. Electricity would be the fuel. My Ford motor was built by the Ford Motor Company and uses Mobil-1 motor oil. My "motor"cycle was built by the Harley Davidson "motor"cycle company and also uses "motor" oil. I believe rat here in the forums is a "motor" home section. Motorboats have inboard or outboard motors. But I see watt you're saying.:B - HannibalExplorer
transamz9 wrote:
Your truck don't weigh 11,000# either. I know you are going to say that most trucks don't weigh that and you are right but this is a "tow vehicle" thread and when you hook weight behind your gasser you can not hold a gear.
I know all about the multiplying of the torque. I think a real truck should be able to run at GVWR and do easily without all of the gear changes. I'm not asking it to tow something, hell it's not even at it GVWR and at interstate speeds it should be able to hold high gear. This truck has 4:10's with short 16" tires, it should not have to multiply torque to hold it.
The obsession with OD is that I get tired of hearing it run at 3500- 4000 RPM's just pulling it's own weight. With my sick-o , which is a 1000+ more pounds, cruise in OD at around 2250 and nothing but wind noise. Just a lot more comfortable atmosphere on an hour and a half ride to work at 6am or any time for that matter;)
I'm still not seeing a problem. Shifting is a normal function of our tow vehicles. How do you manage to drive around town? All that shifting must be torture. Surely you aren't going to tell me your truck stays in O/D all day. If it were as bad as you claim it to be, I would be in my 5th Cummins Ram by now. But that's just not the case. And why is your truck geared to run 2250 instead of at or below peak torque rpm? Seems like you're using an excessive amount of torque multiplication. I remember well the Cummins Humm. You might stop in at CVS and pick up some Q-tips.:p
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