Gas engine and Diesel of same specs.Pull the same.

Goose2448 wrote:
Sure, but who wants all that smoke? You will make more power and reliable power by tuning correctly. My truck puffs just a bit on my 120 tune. 430 HP at the wheels with almost no smoke fulls a lot of people. Clean tuning is where its at. Guys that "roll coal" piss me off. That's partly why we ended up with the stupid DPF and DEF in the new trucks. So what I get out of this, is if a truck smokes more, its faster? nono

Need smoke to go fast?

Kory Willis Clean Tuning

user name looks familiar. :)

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
That's a clean tune? ROTFLMAO


This was the statement I disagreed with:

Wilber1 wrote:
What! Throw more fuel in without pumping more air and all you get is black smoke from unburned fuel. You do realize that nothing will burn without oxygen.

And

Wilber1 wrote:
The unburned fuel causing the smoke is helping cool the engine, not making power.

Now, do you agree these statements or not?

Can you have a powerful truck with a clean tune? Sure...........but it will be faster if it's burning more fuel. Hell, trucks with DPF's are powerful and they are very clean.

They are no cleaner that the non DPF trucks, they just have a DPF.:S

That's a clean tune? ROTFLMAO


This was the statement I disagreed with:

Wilber1 wrote:
What! Throw more fuel in without pumping more air and all you get is black smoke from unburned fuel. You do realize that nothing will burn without oxygen.

And

Wilber1 wrote:
The unburned fuel causing the smoke is helping cool the engine, not making power.

Now, do you agree these statements or not?

Can you have a powerful truck with a clean tune? Sure...........but it will be faster if it's burning more fuel. Hell, trucks with DPF's are powerful and they are very clean.

All reciprocating engines make power by making heat and converting the energy from the expanding gases to mechanical energy No heat, no power. The only way to get heat is to burn fuel, more fuel more heat, more power. Supercharging provides more air to burn more fuel. It also moves the heat through the engine quicker allowing the engine to produce more power without damage. This does not just apply to diesels. Bigger turbo, more boost, bigger exhaust, more power without melting the engine. The basic difference is that a diesel does not require a precise fuel air mixture to operate. The problem of managing heat in the engine is the same.

During the early fifties, BRM ran a 1.5L supercharged F1 engine that produced 600HP. BRM V16

The most powerful F1 engines yet were the 1.5L turbos used during the eighties with cars like the 1986 McLaren producing 960 race HP and well over 1000 qualifying HP.

Lotus Renault turbo

Some gassers although the BRM used a methanol based fuel.

Sure, but who wants all that smoke? You will make more power and reliable power by tuning correctly. My truck puffs just a bit on my 120 tune. 430 HP at the wheels with almost no smoke fulls a lot of people. Clean tuning is where its at. Guys that "roll coal" piss me off. That's partly why we ended up with the stupid DPF and DEF in the new trucks. So what I get out of this, is if a truck smokes more, its faster? nono

Need smoke to go fast?

Kory Willis Clean Tuning

Goose2448 wrote:
Sorry as I didn't fully explain my last post. He's a typical diesel in a truck is going to see around 40% thermodynamic efficiency. Internal combustion engines are chemical reaction driven. Gasoline has 8, don't hold me to that and I don't feel like looking this up, hydrocarbons and highway diesel 14 hydrocarbons. With more hydrocarbons there is more potential to make more energy, thus why diesel and heavy fuel oils are more efficient.

Turtle, your right but you can't just throw fuel at it. You have to add some air as well. If that statement was true I could just throw 100% over's in my truck and make lots of power and lots of smoke. Doesnt work like that. You need to balance timing, pulse width, and boost. I'm talking about newer common rail turbo diesels here. I'll finish this later.

It sure does. You don't "have" to balance anything. The reason you can't throw 100% is because you will burn it down. You don't have a big enough turbo to cool down the fuel load. Non-turbo is worse. They don't have anything to cool the combustion chamber off. Hence the lower power setting with non turbo engines like a 3208.

Now, it works better if you adjust all the things you mentioned, but I can just jack the fuel rate up and make good power.

Turbo, non turbo, it makes no difference. More fuel = more power. I gained around 25HP on my 6.5 just by turning up the pump.

I can take a stock common rail and "just" jack the fuel rate up and I will make more power. I don't need any more air. Now it will work better if I have more air or O2 from nitrous no doubt.

But to say I can't get more power by just adding fuel is wrong. I know a guy that has a 12V and is making huge power with lots of fuel. And that is only with 1 intake valve/ cylinder. With a small turbo you really have to keep an eye open for high EGT's or run it at WOT for only a short period.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Thank you!

In the case of your tractor, all you did was throw more fuel to the engine and you got more power. You did not change any of the air flow characteristics of the engine but you made more power. In fact, if you got 20% more power you made a LOT more power! :) And with that power you got a bit more smoke.

A lot of people don't understand that and that there is a HUGE difference between the way a gasoline engine and diesel engine work.

Bottom line pretty much is:

With a gasoline engine it's all about air flow.

With a diesel engine it's all about fuel flow.

That is why tuners on diesels make so much difference. All they have to do is throw more fuel at the engine to make huge power. As you know, you can't do that with gasoline engine because the tuner can't change the air flow characteristics of the engine. With a diesel, we don't worry so much about that.

Diesel power freaks talk about big pumps, higher fuel pressures, big injectors and more fuel.

Gas power freaks talk about big cams, better intakes, headers and things like that. See the trend? :)

Actually you can with gas turbo engines. There are all kinds of tuners available for them that give big power boosts. As long as the turbo can supply enough air to maintain the required mixture ratio, and use a high enough octane fuel, you can add as much fuel and make as much power as the engine can stand.

I suspect the old "turn up the pump" power increase works because there was already more than enough air with the stock setup. That is the other major difference between diesel and gas. Gas must be mixed in a perfect air/fuel ratio. Diesels don't care.

Sorry as I didn't fully explain my last post. He's a typical diesel in a truck is going to see around 40% thermodynamic efficiency. Internal combustion engines are chemical reaction driven. Gasoline has 8, don't hold me to that and I don't feel like looking this up, hydrocarbons and highway diesel 14 hydrocarbons. With more hydrocarbons there is more potential to make more energy, thus why diesel and heavy fuel oils are more efficient.

Turtle, your right but you can't just throw fuel at it. You have to add some air as well. If that statement was true I could just throw 100% over's in my truck and make lots of power and lots of smoke. Doesnt work like that. You need to balance timing, pulse width, and boost. I'm talking about newer common rail turbo diesels here. I'll finish this later.

Thank you!

In the case of your tractor, all you did was throw more fuel to the engine and you got more power. You did not change any of the air flow characteristics of the engine but you made more power. In fact, if you got 20% more power you made a LOT more power! :) And with that power you got a bit more smoke.

A lot of people don't understand that and that there is a HUGE difference between the way a gasoline engine and diesel engine work.

Bottom line pretty much is:

With a gasoline engine it's all about air flow.

With a diesel engine it's all about fuel flow.

That is why tuners on diesels make so much difference. All they have to do is throw more fuel at the engine to make huge power. As you know, you can't do that with gasoline engine because the tuner can't change the air flow characteristics of the engine. With a diesel, we don't worry so much about that.

Diesel power freaks talk about big pumps, higher fuel pressures, big injectors and more fuel.

Gas power freaks talk about big cams, better intakes, headers and things like that. See the trend? :)