Gas vs. Diesel (Ecodiesel)

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
And before anybody jumps on the 4 speed deal, my diesel, just like almost every diesel in the world has a Broaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad torque curve so I don't need 6, 8 or 14 speed to keep it in the torque curve or power. With a double overdrive about the only thing a multi speed tranny does above a 4 speed is get slightly better fuel mileage anyway.

Nope. HP is a function of torque and RPM. If you don't have a gear that will allow you to maintain peak HP RPM at WOT, you ain't making peak HP. Don't care if it is gas or diesel.

Your 4 speed is a 3 speed with single overdrive. The 8 speed is a 6 speed with double overdrive. It has twice as many ratios as your 4 speed before it even gets to overdrive and it has twice as many of them.

The costs are so close that I think cost of operation is only a matter of importance for fleet operators. And they use these trucks in a very different way form us.

wilber1 wrote:

APT wrote:
The Ecodiesel will be much slower at WOT acceleration both unloaded and towing the same weight as the Hemi. It lacks about 150 horsepower. But that does not mean the Hemi will be a more comfortable towing experience for many people cringe when the tachometer exceeds 3000rpm.

How often do people drive their vehicles at WOT? I want power where I use it, not a peak number at an RPM that will drive me nuts.

Because the diesel puts out more power below 3K, there will be much less tendency for nuisance shifting at every little rise in the road while cruising. To me, that is more important than being able to get up a hill faster with an engine roaring away at 4500 RPM. Each to their own.

Pick me, pick me!

I own a 200 HP 425 ft/lb turbo diesel. The pump is turned up a touch so lets call it 225HP. When I tow my 6K TT or my 6 to 8K car trailer it take every bit of 200 HP at WOT just to stay at 35 MPH or above on some of the hills around here. One the really big ones I have been below 30 MPH towing my TT.

And before anybody jumps on the 4 speed deal, my diesel, just like almost every diesel in the world has a Broaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad torque curve so I don't need 6, 8 or 14 speed to keep it in the torque curve or power. With a double overdrive about the only thing a multi speed tranny does above a 4 speed is get slightly better fuel mileage anyway.

Like I said in the past. This thing is going to go head to head against the Ecoboost and like the diesel, it does not scream up hills. It makes it's power much like the diesel does; down low.

People in the US love contests and they love winners of those contests. Ever hear of the saying "Win on Sunday and sell on Monday?"

And as you have seen, the cost to operate both the gas burner and the oil burner are about the same. What is not going to be the same is the tow off contest when it comes.

PUT's lets get on this shall we! :)

Engineer9860 wrote:


In my area gas is 2.90/gal whereas diesel is still in the 3.70~3.80 range. This chart does not reflect this.

Based on the economy of the area in which I live the gassers would enjoy an advantage not shown in this chart.

Yeah it's really hard for joe public to make a buying decision with so many spinning the numbers. Standards like J2807 will certainly weed out the BS that comes out of every camp.
I will say last summer diesel was the same price as gas for about a month. I'm even more confused about the KKB thread yesterday now. This chart shows the little V6 Ram as cheaper to own :H Reality is they are all pretty close to one another. Except that price tag on the diesel engine :E

APT wrote:
The Ecodiesel will be much slower at WOT acceleration both unloaded and towing the same weight as the Hemi. It lacks about 150 horsepower. But that does not mean the Hemi will be a more comfortable towing experience for many people cringe when the tachometer exceeds 3000rpm.

How often do people drive their vehicles at WOT? I want power where I use it, not a peak number at an RPM that will drive me nuts.

Because the diesel puts out more power below 3K, there will be much less tendency for nuisance shifting at every little rise in the road while cruising. To me, that is more important than being able to get up a hill faster with an engine roaring away at 4500 RPM. Each to their own.

Fast Mopar wrote:
I think it is great that Ram offers it. I also know that if Ram did not offer it, people would complain that they should have offered it. It reminds me of the Ram box option that came out. People blasted Ram, saying it takes up too much bed space, yet those same people would have blasted them as having a lack of innovation if they did not offer it.

How long has the internet asked for half ton diesel? Now we have it and what?

Ford took a big risk offering the 3.5 Ecoboost which only gets 1 mpg better (EPA) than the 5.0 V8, and the Ecoboost has been a huge success. It is a fine engine, and I have 3 friends that own them and rave about them. I would seriously consider buying one myself if I could right now, even though the "pencil whip" numbers would not work out.

Exactly. Ram is doing what Ford did to a larger extent. Even higher option cost over the V8 for using less fuel. Will it succeed? I have no idea, but I'm glad it is being offered.

Now, PUT needs to tie a 9K load to those trucks and head out to Eisenhower for a tow off to the top of the hill. There won't be a blanket big enough for that test.

The Ecodiesel will be much slower at WOT acceleration both unloaded and towing the same weight as the Hemi. It lacks about 150 horsepower. But that does not mean the Hemi will be a more comfortable towing experience for many people cringe when the tachometer exceeds 3000rpm.

DirtyOil wrote:
The day I gotta worry about ownership cost, whether its gas or diesel powered is the day I sell em both and run a team of horses and a covered wagon to go Rv'ing... but then I suppose we'll be arguing, which is better for axle grease... whale blubber or bacon fat, horses or oxen... how many bushels of oats per mile or how much grass per kilometer.

DirtyOil yourright when I start do that
when it time to quit RVing and lay on the couch and get fat

FishOnOne wrote:
I read this topic quite a bit here so here's PUT.com attempt to pencil whip the cost of ownership comparing some gas engine trucks to the new RAM Ecodiesel truck.

I think it's time to take a deep breath and admit that the numbers will not work. But, maybe we also need to "pencil whip" the cost of ownership to compare King Ranch vs. XLT and High Country vs. LT and Laramie Lone Star vs. SLT. Some people like diesels. I don't, but many do. There is a market for this, just as there is a market for power sun roofs and stitched leather interior.

I think it is great that Ram offers it. I also know that if Ram did not offer it, people would complain that they should have offered it. It reminds me of the Ram box option that came out. People blasted Ram, saying it takes up too much bed space, yet those same people would have blasted them as having a lack of innovation if they did not offer it.

Ford took a big risk offering the 3.5 Ecoboost which only gets 1 mpg better (EPA) than the 5.0 V8, and the Ecoboost has been a huge success. It is a fine engine, and I have 3 friends that own them and rave about them. I would seriously consider buying one myself if I could right now, even though the "pencil whip" numbers would not work out.

DirtyOil wrote:
The day I gotta worry about ownership cost, whether its gas or diesel powered is the day I sell em both and run a team of horses and a covered wagon to go Rv'ing... but then I suppose we'll be arguing, which is better for axle grease... whale blubber or bacon fat, horses or oxen... how many bushels of oats per mile or how much grass per kilometer.

Then we can argue who builds a better wagon. The size of the fresh water barrel. What blacksmith has a better price on steel bands for the wheels.:B

Engineer9860 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Thanks Troy.

Just as I thought; you can through a blanket over all of them.

Now, PUT needs to tie a 9K load to those trucks and head out to Eisenhower for a tow off to the top of the hill. There won't be a blanket big enough for that test. :B

But but but but.....

It is not how fast you can climb to the Eisenhower but how good your engine brake works going down the hill. :w :B :P

X2 It is nice to get to the top fast, but down the other side in control!