GM 1500/Tahoe recall. Not good.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/05/recall-alert-2014-chevrolet-silverado-and-gmc-sierra-2015-chevrolet-tahoe.html
Fortunately it's not that many.
Fortunately it's not that many.
Forum Discussion
40 Replies
- So nice to finally hear from folks inside these OEMs, albeit on the
floor, but never the less, an insiders view/comments/etc that I whole
heartily agree
As 'line down' is unknown to folks out side of the process.
The calls that even the design team/manager (me) gets at any time of
the day or week...albeit high end computing (super computers) to fix
'my' problem...
That kind of notice goes to the CEO, COO, President, GM, etc and they
*ALL* run around like chickens with their heads cut off...trying to make
managerial decisions to look good, but lost in the frey is that they
were the lamebrains who made the decision that may caused this in the
first place
I was in the automation & process business and heard this as a constant:
"remove the people and replace with the robotic XYZ"...but they never
listened to the part of my presentations that, that will then require
a higher level of maintenance with an even higher and more expensive
'worker'.
They never seemed to have read that, and if they did, ignored that to
pass that responsibility to the line ops manager(s)
This particular thread is telling to me...as to how often they have
regularly schedule 'maintenance' of their tooling. The numbers of
vehicles divided by the numbers built per day/week/month.
A 'person' with the training and longevity on the job would have known
or should have known way before the quality checks, that the torque
was either too much or not enough, or both
A robot is only as good as it's maintenance and the "people" involved
directly.
The low hanging fruit that management normally picks on is the folks
on the line that have no or little input on their decisions... waynec1957 wrote:
As I posted in another thread, I retired from GM after 30 years in production. One of the big things I saw over the years was a gradual taking away of workers’ decision making capability, particularly in the areas of quality. There was always some “program of the day” that, for all intents and purposes, was meant to give workers the ability to report quality concerns.
In my experience, for the most part, these were nothing more than window dressing when it came to solving real problems. Likewise there were always a small percentage of workers willing to use these programs to get a little extra seat time. The most effective program I saw during my time there was a joint GM/UAW program where the immediate people responsible could be bypassed. In any case, I’ve seen a lot of product go out the door that a bunch of people knew had problems.
Empowerment of the work force is just a catch phrase nothing more. I will say in a parts plant it is a little different than an assembly plant.
AND, I can promise that every day in every GM assembly plant in the US someone is getting time off for refusing (legitimately) to run bad product. Any worker who intentionally shuts down an assembly line at a General Motors facility, for ANY reason, will be shown the door, regardless how much protection anyone thinks they might have.
It's amazing the number of people that refuse to believe this!
As far as the calibration issue, I’ve seen (more times than I can count) product or processes run out of specifications and some manager or tech change the calibration tools to fit the tolerances. There were some mighty sharp pencils floating around in those days.
I have been told to "open" the tolerance so a gage will buy marginal parts. Funny thing when you tell them to put it in writing and you want a copy of it they never do it! I have been threatened to be walked out for refusing to do just that. I have yet to have been walked to the gate.
That said, I’ve owned 7 GMC or Chevy trucks since 1979 (including the one I have now) and never had a serious problem with any of them. So for whatever reason, most of the time the manufacturing process worked. I did however have a 1994 1500 Dodge Ram that the transmission went south after less than 10,000 miles.
When the R700 went on line GM knew the front cover pump would leak internally but ran them anyway. It took Toledo Powertrain all most a year to fix the issue. But they still built those transmissions, why because back then the warranty was only 12/12 and they knew that would not fail under warranty and their customer would eat the cost of the repair.
Something no one as mentioned that needs consideration is where these vehicles were manufactured. I can’t find anywhere which specific models are affected by this particular recall (I’m working on it), but I know for certain the 2014 Silverado and Sierra Crew Cabs were assembled in Silao Mexico. This plant has been open since the mid-90s and also produces some 5.3L and 6.0l engines. Anyone who thinks those workers have a voice in the production process or a “union mouth piece” needs to go tour one of those plants.
The Chrysler Mexican plants are Unionized for what it's worth.
As far as the other recalls, from what I’m told the affected vehicles were made at several different plants, so that tells me it’s a process problem.- As I posted in another thread, I retired from GM after 30 years in production. One of the big things I saw over the years was a gradual taking away of workers’ decision making capability, particularly in the areas of quality. There was always some “program of the day” that, for all intents and purposes, was meant to give workers the ability to report quality concerns.
In my experience, for the most part, these were nothing more than window dressing when it came to solving real problems. Likewise there were always a small percentage of workers willing to use these programs to get a little extra seat time. The most effective program I saw during my time there was a joint GM/UAW program where the immediate people responsible could be bypassed. In any case, I’ve seen a lot of product go out the door that a bunch of people knew had problems.
AND, I can promise that every day in every GM assembly plant in the US someone is getting time off for refusing (legitimately) to run bad product. Any worker who intentionally shuts down an assembly line at a General Motors facility, for ANY reason, will be shown the door, regardless how much protection anyone thinks they might have.
As far as the calibration issue, I’ve seen (more times than I can count) product or processes run out of specifications and some manager or tech change the calibration tools to fit the tolerances. There were some mighty sharp pencils floating around in those days.
That said, I’ve owned 7 GMC or Chevy trucks since 1979 (including the one I have now) and never had a serious problem with any of them. So for whatever reason, most of the time the manufacturing process worked. I did however have a 1994 1500 Dodge Ram that the transmission went south after less than 10,000 miles.
Something no one as mentioned that needs consideration is where these vehicles were manufactured. I can’t find anywhere which specific models are affected by this particular recall (I’m working on it), but I know for certain the 2014 Silverado and Sierra Crew Cabs were assembled in Silao Mexico. This plant has been open since the mid-90s and also produces some 5.3L and 6.0l engines. Anyone who thinks those workers have a voice in the production process or a “union mouth piece” needs to go tour one of those plants.
As far as the other recalls, from what I’m told the affected vehicles were made at several different plants, so that tells me it’s a process problem. Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Got to say Terry it sure would be nice to run like that. I work in the gage lab and have had some very heated discussions with a few of our management. I have known our plant manager for 15 years and when I send him an e-mail things usually happen. I have been threatened to be walked out by a few stupidvisers. I just look them dead in the eye and tell them I can use a paid vacation, lets do it. But no vacations for me :W .
I get the whole we have to make rate, but at what cost? Every time you have to run a part back through and machine you have lost 2 parts! The part you are handled the second time, then the part that you should be running!
Just shut the machine down and fix it for goodness sake. But oh no that would cause downtime and downtime is bad!, but re-running parts is not bad?
I guess I just don't understand the workings of a modern business model, like these guys and gals with their fancy degrees and such.
Don
Agree. Lose 2 parts at a minimum when you Rework. We marry the ring to the pinion. So when we fail a set, It takes 4 parts to fix the first 2, and that's IF they both pass with the new ring or pin. Usually one doesn't. So they don't say a whole lot when it takes awhile to hit the magic offset. The operators give me more grief than my coach. They are the ones that have to make production.
Thing is. What I do. there is no gage, or M&M machine to tell me what offset to make. The tester gives me an idea. But it is experience, and training that helps to make the correct move, and it don't always happen the first try. Sometimes it take several moves to get where you need to go. Sort of an educated guess, if you will.- Got to say Terry it sure would be nice to run like that. I work in the gage lab and have had some very heated discussions with a few of our management. I have known our plant manager for 15 years and when I send him an e-mail things usually happen. I have been threatened to be walked out by a few stupidvisers. I just look them dead in the eye and tell them I can use a paid vacation, lets do it. But no vacations for me :W .
I get the whole we have to make rate, but at what cost? Every time you have to run a part back through and machine you have lost 2 parts! The part you are handled the second time, then the part that you should be running!
Just shut the machine down and fix it for goodness sake. But oh no that would cause downtime and downtime is bad!, but re-running parts is not bad?
I guess I just don't understand the workings of a modern business model, like these guys and gals with their fancy degrees and such.
Don Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Terry I can assure you that most all of the workers want to build a good product.
However until quality takes precedence over product out the back door, we are going to continue to see this. It is Management that is calling the shots not the workers.
I have been told by area managers that they will sign off on a calibration so the line does not shut down. Managers receive quarterly bonuses for meeting production quotas and larger bonuses for exceeding them. Think they want to lose 10 to fifteen minutes of production for quality calibration? Nope no way, no how, not today mister. Go calibrate someone elses machine, I'll sign your damn book. Now go away! I found a way around this, I send out E-mails listing the line and machine or gages signed off on and send it to all the upper management. Very seldom do I get turned away anymore, get a lot of nasty looks however. But it works for me and my fellow workers.
BTW tame thing happens at GM and Ford day in day out. The Japs are not any different either.
Don
May be the way it works for you. But not for us. All I have to do to stop production is to say my gages are out of calibration. Our gages are not signed off by managers. they are only signed off by the gage lab. OR I can say. I need to gage the lapper, or tester. And in fact. I can say the pattern does not look good to me, and stop the works until it does. Our name is on every part we make. So that if it is wrong. They know who to come see. And if they come see you a couple times. You don't make any more parts. At least not for them.
Of course we have to make production. But our management knows that it is better to make 50 good units, than 100 bad ones. Our failure rate, or PPM is right around 9. Management likes that. GM likes it, Ford likes it as do BMW, Chrysler, And Massaritte. Prolly didn't spell that right.
Bottom line. It costs more to do it wrong than to do it right.- Don, glad your boss told the truth. Kudos to her. Keep up the good work.
- I agree with both of you Mich and Gypsy but check this out.
Last Sunday I took a machine down to change an expired calibration bottle(calibration out of date). I found the o-ring was cut and went to get a replacement. When I got back the area manager was waiting for me and started yelling at me wanting to know why this wasn't done on days and who was I to take a machine off line without informing him. I told him that the gage tech that was working on days was not familiar with the procedure and I was instructed to change it at the start of my shift.
My direct supervisor called me at home on Monday telling me that the area manager e-mailed her, telling her to write me up and give me ten days off for causing 35 minutes of lost production. She responded that, she had given me a direct order to change the bottle and if anyone was getting anytime off for it, it would be her! Well her boss the head of Quality was copied on her e-mail along with others. Well about 2 hours into my shift the area manager comes up to me and apologizes for being an a$$.
BTW my supervisor is only one of about a couple of supervisors that would back their employees and takes a lot of heat for it. To bad she is not the norm. Shut a line down at an assembly plant and you're going to be walked out the gate and not for 3 or ten days either. You have to tag the vehicle and it gets repaired later. More than three tags in 30 days from the same worker and you get time off. First time you get three days. If it happens again within 12 months you get ten days, then 30 and then you're fired. BTW those are rolling 12 months from the last infraction.
The pace at an assembly plant is such that for every 30 workers hired only ten make it past 30 days and out of those only one will make it to the magical 90 days and get hired. You are not protected by the union during your probation time and NO temporary part timers or vacation replacements are protected by the union either.
All for the very low wage of $14 to start and you top out at just over $20 per hour. It takes four long years to get to the top. To give you an idea of how poor their pay is, when I hired in at Chrysler my starting pay was $13.90 in 1999! So in fifteen year new hires are starting at the same wage an top out four years later less then I would have topped out had I stayed in production. Kind of sad, no wonder kids today can't buy a new car let alone own a house and raise a family. This is the first generation in these United States that the next generation will be worse off than the last.
OK rant over you can return to bashing GM for having some recalls.
Don catfishmontana wrote:
Ric Flair wrote:
This recall doesn't affect tow vehicles
The OP recall is half ton pickups and tahoes.
According to some on here, half tons are only grocery getters...Ric Flair wrote:
This recall doesn't affect tow vehicles
The OP recall is half ton pickups and tahoes.
