GM is going aluminum

Engineer9860 wrote:
The body shops that invest in the equipment, and train the personnel the earliest stand to benefit the most.

Repair is going to be expensive.

Ford actually took pains to state "we have worked to make repairs cheaper."

GM is no stranger to aluminum construction...
Corvette (C7) frames are 7 series aluminum
Corvette Z06 (C6) frames are 7 series aluminum

Engineer9860 wrote:

jaycocamprs wrote:

v10superduty wrote:

However I want to point out something I noticed in GM press release about very different construction technique.
Ford is going to rivet and glue where panels meet, mainly ones of dissimilar metals..
GM is going to weld..

Here comes the stirring..:W

While in the marine business I was heavily involved with product from Brunswick Corp.. Merc outboards and their lines of aluminium fishing boats. Princecraft (premium Canadian made boat)Lund, Crestliner, and Lowe.
Not going to discuss Lowe cause was an unknown in our parts but the other 3 very common.
Princecraft used rivet and glue construction.
Lund used rivet construction.
Crestliner used welded construction.

In commercial use where a year equates to about 10 to 15 years of a recreational user who goes out every second weekend, the weakness of each showed up.
Over time the Lund and Princecraft would need a few rivits tightened which is a do it yourself repair if there is no floor structure in the way.
Over time the Crestliner would crack lengthways along the edge of the welds. Major repair here and usually was just a bandaid till it recracked along the edge of the new repaired area.

Does this relate to trucks that no one has bought and used yet? :@
We will see wont we..
I know which construction technique I would want.

Peterbuilt, Kenworth and Freightliner have used riveted aluminum construction on their truck cabs for many years.

Kenworth uses huckbolts, instead of rivets.

As far as the weld vs rivet comment, aircraft use rivets and develop cracks all the time. It is the nature of aluminum, not the fastening method. Rivets and glue are preferred in a production environment because it is cheaper than welding.

Add to that, after enough stress cycles everything fails. Two things about the large aircraft. 1. they actually FLY, sometimes I think we forget how impressive this really is. 2. watching the wings while in flight you an see just how much flexing and moving that is occurring.

jaycocamprs wrote:

v10superduty wrote:

However I want to point out something I noticed in GM press release about very different construction technique.
Ford is going to rivet and glue where panels meet, mainly ones of dissimilar metals..
GM is going to weld..

Here comes the stirring..:W

While in the marine business I was heavily involved with product from Brunswick Corp.. Merc outboards and their lines of aluminium fishing boats. Princecraft (premium Canadian made boat)Lund, Crestliner, and Lowe.
Not going to discuss Lowe cause was an unknown in our parts but the other 3 very common.
Princecraft used rivet and glue construction.
Lund used rivet construction.
Crestliner used welded construction.

In commercial use where a year equates to about 10 to 15 years of a recreational user who goes out every second weekend, the weakness of each showed up.
Over time the Lund and Princecraft would need a few rivits tightened which is a do it yourself repair if there is no floor structure in the way.
Over time the Crestliner would crack lengthways along the edge of the welds. Major repair here and usually was just a bandaid till it recracked along the edge of the new repaired area.

Does this relate to trucks that no one has bought and used yet? :@
We will see wont we..
I know which construction technique I would want.

Peterbuilt, Kenworth and Freightliner have used riveted aluminum construction on their truck cabs for many years.

Kenworth uses huckbolts, instead of rivets.

As far as the weld vs rivet comment, aircraft use rivets and develop cracks all the time. It is the nature of aluminum, not the fastening method. Rivets and glue are preferred in a production environment because it is cheaper than welding.

v10superduty wrote:

However I want to point out something I noticed in GM press release about very different construction technique.
Ford is going to rivet and glue where panels meet, mainly ones of dissimilar metals..
GM is going to weld..

Here comes the stirring..:W

While in the marine business I was heavily involved with product from Brunswick Corp.. Merc outboards and their lines of aluminium fishing boats. Princecraft (premium Canadian made boat)Lund, Crestliner, and Lowe.
Not going to discuss Lowe cause was an unknown in our parts but the other 3 very common.
Princecraft used rivet and glue construction.
Lund used rivet construction.
Crestliner used welded construction.

In commercial use where a year equates to about 10 to 15 years of a recreational user who goes out every second weekend, the weakness of each showed up.
Over time the Lund and Princecraft would need a few rivits tightened which is a do it yourself repair if there is no floor structure in the way.
Over time the Crestliner would crack lengthways along the edge of the welds. Major repair here and usually was just a bandaid till it recracked along the edge of the new repaired area.

Does this relate to trucks that no one has bought and used yet? :@
We will see wont we..
I know which construction technique I would want.

Peterbuilt, Kenworth and Freightliner have used riveted aluminum construction on their truck cabs for many years.

The body shops that invest in the equipment, and train the personnel the earliest stand to benefit the most.

Repair is going to be expensive.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

All of my Glass hauler bodies are aluminum, they show some signs of chalking from time to time. I don't think aluminum body panels on trucks, painted would be a problem. My truck bodies are mill finish with no coating, body panels on trucks would be etch primed and painted. The repair of these new aluminum bodies will take body shops a little time to adjust, but they will quickly.

A LOT of talk here about aluminum vs. steel from a structural and longevity perspective. However, I've seen zero discussion about the primary reason Ford is using aluminum (maybe I missed it).

The $1,000,000,000 question (literally) and the one that's really the most important to the AVERAGE consumer (and the rest of the industry):

The 2014 Ecoboost 4x2 gets 16/22 EPA MPG.

What will the new aluminum body Ecoboost 4x2 EPA MPG numbers be?

Anyone care to guess how much of an EPA MPG increase (city/highway) is necessary to call Ford's decision to use aluminum a "success"?

Guess I gotta stir the pot a bit here...:B

Disclosure..just retired after over 30 years at Ford dealer but I did 2 detours totalling 16 years at RV-marine-dealers.

When it was announced that Ford was going aluminium many from the GM camp had a lot of reasons why this was a dumb plan..:S
Now here they are..

However I want to point out something I noticed in GM press release about very different construction technique.
Ford is going to rivet and glue where panels meet, mainly ones of dissimilar metals..
GM is going to weld..

Here comes the stirring..:W

While in the marine business I was heavily involved with product from Brunswick Corp.. Merc outboards and their lines of aluminium fishing boats. Princecraft (premium Canadian made boat)Lund, Crestliner, and Lowe.
Not going to discuss Lowe cause was an unknown in our parts but the other 3 very common.
Princecraft used rivet and glue construction.
Lund used rivet construction.
Crestliner used welded construction.

In commercial use where a year equates to about 10 to 15 years of a recreational user who goes out every second weekend, the weakness of each showed up.
Over time the Lund and Princecraft would need a few rivits tightened which is a do it yourself repair if there is no floor structure in the way.
Over time the Crestliner would crack lengthways along the edge of the welds. Major repair here and usually was just a bandaid till it recracked along the edge of the new repaired area.

Does this relate to trucks that no one has bought and used yet? :@
We will see wont we..
I know which construction technique I would want.

Please Crestliner owners, don't hate, you will only see this problem after LOTS of EXTREME use so most will not experience it.