home built plans

JBarca wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:


Insurance on a depreciating asset does not work that way, period.

If the coverage you have is "replacement value" then you are only going to get what it was worth the DAY it was damaged or stolen. You WILL not get reimbursed from the PRICE you paid when it was NEW.

Using your "logic" I could buy a 10 yr old trailer for $4K, insure it for the price it cost when it was brand new ($10K). Then damage it and collect $10K... netting me a cool $6K "profit" from the insurance co.

Put it to you this way, would YOU pay $10K for your near 10yr old trailer? I highly doubt that you would be willing to part with even $4K to buy it at 10yrs old.

Try putting your trailer up for sale for the price you paid for it when it was new. See if you can find anyone willing to pay that much for a 10 yr old trailer . if you do find someone that foolish, run and take the money.. Report back with your results...


If anything happens to your trailer as of this moment I would doubt you would get much more than a couple of thousand..

Well, maybe but I don't think so in my case. I did not say I had "replacement value" insurance. For a total loss, when I bought my 1st camper new, they would replace it with a new camper of equal value of my policy within the 1st 5 years. After 5 years they only pay out the value of the policy.

My current camper I bought used. Was 2.5 years old. The prior owner paid the heavy hit in deprecation. Since it was not new I could not get the same coverage as I had on the prior new camper. I have a "declared value" or what I believe they call "agreed value" which is less than what it is when new however it covers what I paid for it and that was in line with it's book value at the time. In a total loss they will pay the policy value/agreed value/purchase price stated on the policy less the scrap value if there is anything left to scrap.

Seems like I need to re-ask my agent the same questions again I did about 3 years ago when my friend wrecked his. They clearly said, they would payout the value of the policy in the event of a total loss, which in my case is what I paid for it at the start of the policy.

As far as selling it, selling a camper is totally different than an agreed value insuring one. That is understood. A camper in pristine shape stored in a barn and barely used that is 10 years old has to find a special buyer that is willing to pay above current book value.

I do not know where you were going with the buy a 10 year old camper for $4K, insuring it for new and expecting to get a collection of new value. First off I do not know what insurance company would allow new coverage on a 10 year old camper unless it was some special collectors edition that had to go through a special appraisal process first. They normally will not allow the sale of a policy for more than it was worth at the time it was bought. Which is why they would not issue my policy at the cost of new, but did issue it at the agreed/declared/purchase value at the time I bought it. If I tried to do this today on the same camper, they would only issue the policy at the value of a 10 year old camper that I bought it for. Both have to line up, the value at the time I bought and what I paid for it. If I grossly over paid, they would not issue for the gross overpayment.

You may be right, I have been wrong before. And I'm sure I'll be wrong again. Just I asked this exact question 3 years a ago. I'll see if I get the same answer again this time.

Man, I got to get me some of this "insurance", I have a bunch of "projects" in my garage and back yard which perhaps I can get an insurance company to "pay" me to have a professional restoration done on them...

Honestly, I think your agent is joshing you.

I would highly recommend reading your policy declarations yourself and if you do not understand it take the policy to a different insurance company. Insurance "ease" is often confusing and difficult to figure out exactly what you are paying for, a second opinion from a third party might be a good idea.

I can't imagine an insurance company that would be willing to write a policy which would basically "payout" a SET amount which would exceed the depreciating value of the trailer.

In reality the agent may have sold you a policy basically covering "contents" (works like "renters insurance"), now this I can understand. If this is the case then your insurance policy is really only covering your contents in case of loss not the trailer and THAT would make sense.

In a sense if what you are saying your agent created a policy which does not depreciate the value of the trailer which would be an unbelievable "deal". Almost to good to be true and you know when there is a deal which appears to be to good to be true it typically turns out in a bad way.

Workhardplayharder, did you ever pop over and check out TNTTT?

Gdetrailer wrote:


Insurance on a depreciating asset does not work that way, period.

If the coverage you have is "replacement value" then you are only going to get what it was worth the DAY it was damaged or stolen. You WILL not get reimbursed from the PRICE you paid when it was NEW.

Using your "logic" I could buy a 10 yr old trailer for $4K, insure it for the price it cost when it was brand new ($10K). Then damage it and collect $10K... netting me a cool $6K "profit" from the insurance co.

Put it to you this way, would YOU pay $10K for your near 10yr old trailer? I highly doubt that you would be willing to part with even $4K to buy it at 10yrs old.

Try putting your trailer up for sale for the price you paid for it when it was new. See if you can find anyone willing to pay that much for a 10 yr old trailer . if you do find someone that foolish, run and take the money.. Report back with your results...


If anything happens to your trailer as of this moment I would doubt you would get much more than a couple of thousand..

Well, maybe but I don't think so in my case. I did not say I had "replacement value" insurance. For a total loss, when I bought my 1st camper new, they would replace it with a new camper of equal value of my policy within the 1st 5 years. After 5 years they only pay out the value of the policy.

My current camper I bought used. Was 2.5 years old. The prior owner paid the heavy hit in deprecation. Since it was not new I could not get the same coverage as I had on the prior new camper. I have a "declared value" or what I believe they call "agreed value" which is less than what it is when new however it covers what I paid for it and that was in line with it's book value at the time. In a total loss they will pay the policy value/agreed value/purchase price stated on the policy less the scrap value if there is anything left to scrap.

Seems like I need to re-ask my agent the same questions again I did about 3 years ago when my friend wrecked his. They clearly said, they would payout the value of the policy in the event of a total loss, which in my case is what I paid for it at the start of the policy.

As far as selling it, selling a camper is totally different than an agreed value insuring one. That is understood. A camper in pristine shape stored in a barn and barely used that is 10 years old has to find a special buyer that is willing to pay above current book value.

I do not know where you were going with the buy a 10 year old camper for $4K, insuring it for new and expecting to get a collection of new value. First off I do not know what insurance company would allow new coverage on a 10 year old camper unless it was some special collectors edition that had to go through a special appraisal process first. They normally will not allow the sale of a policy for more than it was worth at the time it was bought. Which is why they would not issue my policy at the cost of new, but did issue it at the agreed/declared/purchase value at the time I bought it. If I tried to do this today on the same camper, they would only issue the policy at the value of a 10 year old camper that I bought it for. Both have to line up, the value at the time I bought and what I paid for it. If I grossly over paid, they would not issue for the gross overpayment.

You may be right, I have been wrong before. And I'm sure I'll be wrong again. Just I asked this exact question 3 years a ago. I'll see if I get the same answer again this time.

JBarca writes "Now to the rebuild, my camper is approaching 10 years old.

I can still collect a total loss payout the same as day I bought it and I'm covered unhooked from the truck if we are on extended trips away from home.

If in 3 or 4 years I do a total rebuild on this same camper, the question comes up, what will happen to the insurance? I'll have to call them and ask.

I'm sure on a 14 year old camper by then I'm not able to reset the value any higher than the original payout regardless of improvements.

But if it will stay at that value, that is not a bad deal. And yes the ~ $6 to $8K more I just put in it for a total overhaul gave me a new materials camper, along with a year long labor of love project... But this is a whole lot less than buying a brand new camper. "

Insurance on a depreciating asset does not work that way, period.

If the coverage you have is "replacement value" then you are only going to get what it was worth the DAY it was damaged or stolen. You WILL not get reimbursed from the PRICE you paid when it was NEW.

Using your "logic" I could buy a 10 yr old trailer for $4K, insure it for the price it cost when it was brand new ($10K). Then damage it and collect $10K... netting me a cool $6K "profit" from the insurance co.

Put it to you this way, would YOU pay $10K for your near 10yr old trailer? I highly doubt that you would be willing to part with even $4K to buy it at 10yrs old.

Try putting your trailer up for sale for the price you paid for it when it was new. See if you can find anyone willing to pay that much for a 10 yr old trailer . if you do find someone that foolish, run and take the money.. Report back with your results...

Stick and bricks homes APPRECIATE in value over time.

RVs DO NOT.

No insurance co is ever going to write a policy which will allow them to KNOWINGLY LOSE MONEY. They are in the business of making money, gambling that they will never payout on you policy and better than 99% of the time they WIN.

If anything happens to your trailer as of this moment I would doubt you would get much more than a couple of thousand..

Gdetrailer wrote:

JBarca wrote:
Gdetrailer brings up some great points and details out the process at least for PA.

Another question is insurance. Has anyone been able to get an actual RV policy on a home built or rebuilt unit? And what did you go through?

I am contemplating doing a total camper rebuild in a few years verses a new rig. I would use my own chassis and only tweak the floor plan but the rest of the build is all new.

Then comes the RV insurance. Right now I am insured under an RV policy that will pay out a declared amount regardless of age if a total loss is encountered. I only have it for the 1 sad day that may ever happen. When I get done, the camper itself would be all new but the frame and axles. While I may not get my time back, getting the materials back would be a minimum.

John

While I was researching building one from scratch, I was not worried about RV insurance. Basically in MANY cases, your auto policy covers your trailer as long as it is being towed or if it connected to your vehicle while parked. If your auto insurance doesn't cover while towing you can often get a low cost "rider" to the policy which will cover the towing.

While not in use as long as it is stored on my home property it is covered by my home owners insurance.

The only time it would not be covered by insurance is when it is parked at a campground or any other place disconnected from my vehicle..

Basically it would be considered "self" insured while camping and disconnected from my vehicle. In other words if my trailer were to burn down or be stolen while camping and it was not attached to my vehicle I would get nothing.

Now take into consideration that IF you pay for a RV insurance "policy" you will spend a lot of money over those years of ownership and have a lot of duplication of coverage all in the hopes that you will be covered in the off chance something bad happens while camping and the trailer is not attached to your vehicle.

Say your policy for your trailer is $50 per month, that is $600 per year. Over 10 years that is $6000 paid to some guy who is partying on YOUR money..

I look at it like this.. The money I spent rebuilding my TT is less than the $6K and I have no problems either rebuilding another trailer or building one from scratch if need be.

The only real reason you would ever "need" RV insurance is if you have a loan. That is because the LENDER is taking a risk and they will want paid in full one way or another. Carrying RV insurance past the loan pay off you are paying for duplicate coverage and in most cases you will pay more for the insurance than the trailer is worth..

People put too much faith in buying unneeded "insurance" which often duplicates other insurance you may already have. Ask your agents the right questions and you can often save a bunch of money.

Hi,

Thanks for the response. Everyone's situation is different. In your case, your home built fits your situation and if I was to create one in that case, I may take a similar approach.

The statements in blue are very broad and may not apply to all cases. To help show this I'll give you mine. I'm not trying to change your thought process, just explain mine.

When I started out RV'ing we bought (cash) a new PU. Called my local auto insurance agent, they said they could insure it, they created a rider and charged me $45/year on a $9,500 PU. I thought that was a bargin and never thought twice until we went to a TT.

When we bought our first new TT (again cash) this pleasure investment we just bought was a lot more than the PU. I started hearing about RV insurance and the differences between what the auto rider I had was. Digging into this I received a similar response as you appeared to state from my insurance agent. As long as I was "hooked" to the truck I was covered as far as a depreciating vehicle. When I store it at home on my own property I had coverage again as a depreciating vehicle for loss picked up under my homeowners.

Then I started asking deeper questions about what happens when we actually camp (unhooked from the truck)or the vehicle is stored off our property? Here is where things start to drift apart. If my brand new camper burnt to the ground at CG and the LP tank exploded to make this even worse, I collected nothing. If my camper burnt part of the CG or worse caught the camper next to me on fire, I was responsible for both and there was no insurance to cover this.

So I searched out several RV policies, some are similar, some are different. The cost figures I received and bought are different then were being stated. On the 1st new TT, it would take me 60 years in paying annual premiums to equal the cost of the payout of the policy. On our current camper (again paid cash) it would 50-71 years pending price increases to equal the cost of the camper.

The differences come in the coverage, I am only in need/want to use this insurance for total or severe loss. A 2 foot diameter tree falls on the camper, fire etc and what happens at the campground. I have comprehensive, collision and increase personal effect to cover equal replacement coverage of the camper for the first 5 years. After 5 years I will collect the full face value of the policy in a total loss. There is also a disappearing deductible for no claims in a 5 year period and as of now I'm past that. The CG damage and the camper next to me and my own camper have coverage in any state of the US and Canada hooked or unhooked from the truck. Since the RV policy is not tied to a depreciating vehicle like the truck is, we have the same level of help as the camper gets older as the day we bought it.

On the auto policy rider they treat the camper just like the truck on a payout assuming you had collision/comprehensive. They look the value at the time of loss in a book, for the age and that deprecated value is your payout. The older the camper gets the lower the payout

I had a camper friend with the same size/length and brand camper as we do a few years ago total his rig. He was towing and a nasty wind blast sent him into a sway event coming over a ridge. He lost control, rolled the camper and his 2500 Suburban. He dropped the collision on his auto policy rider on the camper as he was paying a huge cost ($1K) on it the year before. Since the event was his fault he collect nothing on the 6 year old camper. The truck, also totaled he collected the depreciated book value less his deductible. The only good that came out of this for him was, his wife and him were not seriously injured. After seeing the camper and the Burb roof flattened to the doors, God was looking out for him for sure.

After this, I again questioned my agent if my RV policy would cover this towing down the road, my agent said yes you are covered to the full payout of the policy under the comprehensive or the collision which ever part was declared needed. And this also includes the higher limit I have on personal effects. I am not paying anywhere near what my camper friend was paying for as collision on an auto rider for the camper. That is insane.

Now to the rebuild, my camper is approaching 10 years old. I can still collect a total loss payout the same as day I bought it and I'm covered unhooked from the truck if we are on extended trips away from home. If in 3 or 4 years I do a total rebuild on this same camper, the question comes up, what will happen to the insurance? I'll have to call them and ask. I'm sure on a 14 year old camper by then I'm not able to reset the value any higher than the original payout regardless of improvements. But if it will stay at that value, that is not a bad deal. And yes the ~ $6 to $8K more I just put in it for a total overhaul gave me a new materials camper, along with a year long labor of love project... But this is a whole lot less than buying a brand new camper.

I will never buy an RV on a loan. I'm too old school. Save up for it or do without. Since campers are declared a vehicle they depreciate the minute it rolled off the lot. In our case the RV policy annual premium protects our enjoyment of RV'ing at a cost of less than $1/day. And yes when I'm not using the camper and it is stored on my property I am double paying some amount. It is all about risk and what each of us want to take on. The fact of being fully covered when unhooked off my property for less than $1/day is worth it for us in our situation.

Thanks

John

Gdetrailer wrote:


While I was researching building one from scratch, I was not worried about RV insurance. Basically in MANY cases, your auto policy covers your trailer as long as it is being towed or if it connected to your vehicle while parked. If your auto insurance doesn't cover while towing you can often get a low cost "rider" to the policy which will cover the towing.

While not in use as long as it is stored on my home property it is covered by my home owners insurance.

The only time it would not be covered by insurance is when it is parked at a campground or any other place disconnected from my vehicle..

Basically it would be considered "self" insured while camping and disconnected from my vehicle. In other words if my trailer were to burn down or be stolen while camping and it was not attached to my vehicle I would get nothing.

Now take into consideration that IF you pay for a RV insurance "policy" you will spend a lot of money over those years of ownership and have a lot of duplication of coverage all in the hopes that you will be covered in the off chance something bad happens while camping and the trailer is not attached to your vehicle.

Say your policy for your trailer is $50 per month, that is $600 per year. Over 10 years that is $6000 paid to some guy who is partying on YOUR money..

I look at it like this.. The money I spent rebuilding my TT is less than the $6K and I have no problems either rebuilding another trailer or building one from scratch if need be.

The only real reason you would ever "need" RV insurance is if you have a loan. That is because the LENDER is taking a risk and they will want paid in full one way or another. Carrying RV insurance past the loan pay off you are paying for duplicate coverage and in most cases you will pay more for the insurance than the trailer is worth..

People put too much faith in buying unneeded "insurance" which often duplicates other insurance you may already have. Ask your agents the right questions and you can often save a bunch of money.

Very astute and well explained :)

GrandpaKip wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

workhardplayharder wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Insurance may be an issue. All I could get was coverage on the cargo trailer, not the conversion.

Home built with no bank note- I really don't see a need to insure. On my auto policy any trailer that I am pulling is covered under the auto policy. The money that would have been spent on insurance will be put in the tank.

Correct!

Unfortunately folks just don't seem to understand this concept..

Oh, I understand all right. It was the $4000 in materials and possessions I put into the conversion on top of the $2000 for the trailer I wanted to insure. My insurance company would only insure the trailer, which was covered by my auto policy and my homeowners. So, following this logic, since I built my house with no loan, I shouldn't waste my money on insurance?

TWO DIFFERENT "CONCEPTS".

Your trailer like ALL trailers along with NEARLY ALL vehicles DEPRECIATE IN VALUE OVER TIME.

This gives a NEGATIVE "EQUITY" in which the item is worth NOTHING over time and you will NEVER, EVER get the money you spent on it out of it.

Only a handful of very "rare" or "classic" vehicles APPRECIATE in value and in the case of RVs only two COMMERCIALLY BUILT brands come to mind that may fit this EXCEPTION and a HOME BUILT TRAILER DOES NOT FIT THIS EXCEPTION.

A sticks and bricks HOME generally WILL APPRECIATE in value over time, this gives you a POSITIVE "EQUITY".

This means pretty much unless you over spend on the value in the area you built or bought in you are going to see some return in your money if you sell it as it gets older.

I hate to break it to you but your trailer no matter how much time and money spent is not worth anymore than the ORIGINAL trailer you started out with and that value is dropping DAILY.

What my motivation was for either building from scratch or rebuilding an old one was to NOT MAKE money on it. No, it was solely a labor of love that I could take a piece of junk, tear it apart and build it to MY OWN NEEDS AND TASTES.

I knew going in that the money I put into it was a LOSS but it was much less loss than buying a new RV for $30K and paying $3K in interest then selling it for $2K after 10 yrs.

I bought my now 30yr old trailer for $700 six years ago, redid it the way I want it and if I wanted or needed to sell it I would only get $1,500 for it. Yes, I spent over all about $5K in cash to buy it and fix it but in the end it is not worth paying even $50 a year let alone $200 or in some cases $1000 a year on it.

You have some very smart AND HONEST insurance companies that turned you down, they DID YOU a favor by not wasting YOUR MONEY. They could have smiled and taken your money but they didn't and YOU owe them an apology.

Put it another way.. After you pay off a vehicle, do you keep full comprehensive insurance on it after say 6 years?

I don't, instead I remove the comprehensive when the VALUE of my vehicle drops to the point that the insurance co would basically JUNK it for a fender bender. I take the savings of the insurance and tuck it away for future repairs or as a down payment for the next vehicle.

I work hard for every penny my money I have and I don't give it away...

I have not as of yet seen a POOR insurance salesman driving a 15yr old bare bones car with rust holes through it. Nope, they tend to have pretty expensive 1 or 2 yr old LUXURY CARS...

Gdetrailer wrote:

workhardplayharder wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Insurance may be an issue. All I could get was coverage on the cargo trailer, not the conversion.

Home built with no bank note- I really don't see a need to insure. On my auto policy any trailer that I am pulling is covered under the auto policy. The money that would have been spent on insurance will be put in the tank.

Correct!

Unfortunately folks just don't seem to understand this concept..

Oh, I understand all right. It was the $4000 in materials and possessions I put into the conversion on top of the $2000 for the trailer I wanted to insure. My insurance company would only insure the trailer, which was covered by my auto policy and my homeowners. So, following this logic, since I built my house with no loan, I shouldn't waste my money on insurance?

workhardplayharder wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Insurance may be an issue. All I could get was coverage on the cargo trailer, not the conversion.

Home built with no bank note- I really don't see a need to insure. On my auto policy any trailer that I am pulling is covered under the auto policy. The money that would have been spent on insurance will be put in the tank.

Correct!

Unfortunately folks just don't seem to understand this concept..

GrandpaKip wrote:
Insurance may be an issue. All I could get was coverage on the cargo trailer, not the conversion.

Home built with no bank note- I really don't see a need to insure. On my auto policy any trailer that I am pulling is covered under the auto policy. The money that would have been spent on insurance will be put in the tank.