How heavy is TOO heavy? GVWR on a 2500

Alright guys I'd like your input on something I can't stop arguing both ways. Current rig is a lower mileage 2005 2500HD Duramax cew cab, motor has been gone through and added ARP studs, all new belts/hoses/seals etc, 4" downpipe, 4" exhaust, EGR delete, intake, Edge tuner, deep trans pan, delvac fluid, airbags, new shocks, bigger tires, plenty strong wheels, curt Q20 sliding hitch etc

More or less the truck is as capable and ready to tow as it's ever going to be, and does so quite well.

The issue I have is, like all other 2500's, pin weight and GVWR (also GCWR).

New trailer this year is slightly larger than last years, its a 2015 Heartland Gateway 3200RS, just shy of 38 feet long, 11,000lbs empty with a gross weight of 14,000lbs. Manufacturer spec says 2,270lbs dry pin weight.

As I assume most of you know the 2005 2500HD has a GVWR of 9200lbs, GAWR front of 4670lbs and GAWR rear of 6084lbs.

With me, my dog, a full tank of fuel, toolbox and 5th wheel hitch installed the truck weighed 7600lbs on the button, leaving me 1,600lbs of gross weight to add. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the trailer puts me over.

Today I filled the trailer with water, but really nothing else and threw the ~80lb generator in the bed of the truck and took it to the scales to get a better idea of where I really stood. Keep in mind the thing drives fine, doesn't feel sketchy at all, but of course knows **** well the trailer is there. Airbags were at 70lbs each.

Front Axle: 4340lbs
Rear Axle: 5980lbs
Trailer Axel: 10,000lbs

Gross Weight 20,320lbs

So, I'm at 10,320lbs gross on the truck, again just me and my dog and this time 3/4's tank of fuel. Realistically we'd be adding the lady, another dog, firewood, and loading the trailer with all the food and camping supplies you'd expect. I'll also be planning to tandem tow my pair of jet ski's, that trailer is just shy of 2,700lbs with a ~400ish pound tongue weight that puts me at 69'4" (legal Nevada limit is 70').

So, clearly I'm already over by 1,120lbs on the truck, with I think will EASILY become 1,400lbs overall. I'll then be over GAWR as well, and when the jet ski's are hitched up I'll be in the neighborhood of 2,000lbs over GCWR on the truck.

Obviously not 'technically' legal, which is a consideration of mine for any unforeseen accident situations, but I know people tow similar configurations all the time. My question is at what point do you consider 'over weight' to be 'too much over weight'. Is it 100lbs, 500lbs, 1,000lbs, 1,500lbs etc? Airbags make a huge difference, but they aren't changing the rest of the truck and while my tires and wheels are rated for the weight, that doesn't mean my axles, brakes, frame etc enjoy it.

To stay within gross weights in all accounts I need to be in a 2013+ Ram 3500 with an Aisin, or GM/Ford 3500/350. I'm not QUITE to where I need a DRW setup, and being that I daily drive it I'd prefer not to go that route but I do like the Ram 3500 Megacab DRW.

I'd just like everyone's opinion!

Tow Vehicles

Me_Again
Explorer III
Feb 17, 2017
One solution is to bag it, install 8"Wx16"D wheels with LT265/75R16E tires and hit the road, being sure to license it for 12K with the state of Nevada.

"$33 for 6,000 pounds or less
to $48 for 10,000 pounds. Over
10,000 to 26,000 pounds, $12 per
1,000 pounds. Over 26,000 to
80,000 pounds, $17
per 1,000 pounds."
BenK
Explorer
Feb 17, 2017
Yes, here is IMHO...comments...

First, decide if you believe in the OEM's ratings/specifications/limits/recommendations...or not

If not, then this discussion is academic and do whatever you wish...but know the OEM(s) are off the hook

If yes, then this discussion is valid and of course subject to opinions...and note that there is only one person responsible for the setup and that is the driver...even though that driver may not have set it up

Of the OEMs specifications/ratings/limits/recommendations are performance metrics. Many are minimums set by regulatory agencies. Braking and manhandling the setup are my main metrics...along with longevity. As I keep my vehicles decades or till the wheels fall off and/or won't fix it anymore

Note that I am in the vast minority and labeled "The weight police"...okay, wear that moniker as it fits and understand that many who use that reference in a derogatory manner to defuse or reduce the value of those comments...

Just know that your performance will be less than if within/below your OEM's specifications/ratings/limits/recommendations

That longevity will be less and that the wheels won't instantly fall off...but will sooner than if within the spec

As for the daily driver...it is a TRUCK. I commuted M-F and sometimes weekends on a round trip of +70 miles for years with my 8.6K GVWR Suburban. Before that with my Silverado with 1 ton helper springs on the rear axle. Am 69 with a bad back, joint issues, etc, etc of old age...but for me, okay with a TRUCK ride quality...and daily is a 17 year old mini van

Think you already answered your own question...
helpmetow
Explorer
Feb 17, 2017
Me Again wrote:
One solution is to bag it, install 8"Wx16"D wheels with LT265/75R16E tires and hit the road, being sure to license it for 12K with the state of Nevada.

"$33 for 6,000 pounds or less
to $48 for 10,000 pounds. Over
10,000 to 26,000 pounds, $12 per
1,000 pounds. Over 26,000 to
80,000 pounds, $17
per 1,000 pounds."

Airbags?? I have them. I've already got the tires and wheels covered as well. So you're saying literally just go to the DMV and ask them to up my GVWR?? I feel like that seems 'too good to be true'? Also, I feel like I might still be flirting with what the truck SHOULD be hooked up to
helpmetow
Explorer
Feb 17, 2017
helpmetow wrote:
Me Again wrote:
One solution is to bag it, install 8"Wx16"D wheels with LT265/75R16E tires and hit the road, being sure to license it for 12K with the state of Nevada.

"$33 for 6,000 pounds or less
to $48 for 10,000 pounds. Over
10,000 to 26,000 pounds, $12 per
1,000 pounds. Over 26,000 to
80,000 pounds, $17
per 1,000 pounds."

Airbags?? I have them. I've already got the tires and wheels covered as well. So you're saying literally just go to the DMV and ask them to up my GVWR?? I feel like that seems 'too good to be true'? Also, I feel like I might still be flirting with what the truck SHOULD be hooked up to

I appreciate the comments and agree, however 99% of the time I drive it around completely unloaded. Throughout the summer I make weekly/bi-weekly camping trips up to maybe 60 miles away from home.

I'm more or less asking if you think it's 'worth' selling my existing truck for lets say $25,000 (won't be hard to get here) and spending $50,000 on a replacement given the numbers? Or, do I take it easy while towing and keep what I've got?
donn0128
Explorer II
Feb 17, 2017
My last 2500HD scaled at 10,500 pounds with a GVWR of 9,200 pounds. Over weight is not a fun experience. Pulled three years like that and never felt comfortable and would arrive stressed. Upgraded to a truck that was actually capable and never again felt the way I did with the 2500 pulling the exact same trailer.
Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Feb 17, 2017
I am one that has been labeled 'weight police' and that's OK by me.......I don't care

Here are MY Standards
OK if over Trucks GVWR........many times that is a number that can be massaged IE: can be register at higher GVWR

I use RAWR, Rear Tire Max Load Ratings and CGVWR
If at/under the above then hookup and tow
Over on any then a 'personal decision' has to be made.....use axle mfg. specs, change rear tires/wheels to higher load rating.

2005 2500 is good up to 12K 5th wheel----14K is too much weight
I tow 14K with my 2007 3500.......maxed out on RAWR/Rear Tire Max Load ratings and over on Trucks GVWR (10,100---scaled at 10,800 with 2980 pin weight)

Again ..to much trailer for your 2005 2500.
helpmetow
Explorer
Feb 17, 2017
Old-Biscuit wrote:
I am one that has been labeled 'weight police' and that's OK by me.......I don't care

Here are MY Standards
OK if over Trucks GVWR........many times that is a number that can be massaged IE: can be register at higher GVWR

I use RAWR, Rear Tire Max Load Ratings and CGVWR
If at/under the above then hookup and tow
Over on any then a 'personal decision' has to be made.....use axle mfg. specs, change rear tires/wheels to higher load rating.

2005 2500 is good up to 12K 5th wheel----14K is too much weight
I tow 14K with my 2007 3500.......maxed out on RAWR/Rear Tire Max Load ratings and over on Trucks GVWR (10,100---scaled at 10,800 with 2980 pin weight)

Again ..to much trailer for your 2005 2500.

I agree with all of this, however the charts I've seen rate the 2005 2500HD at 16k max on a 5th wheel, I am however right at rear GAWR and will likely be over by ~200lbs when said and done. I think I agree, likely time for a bigger truck.
Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Feb 17, 2017
You have bags already. I'd hook up and go on vacation. I've had a ton of fertilize on the very tail of my 06 Dmax. I mean right next to the tail gate and it dropped only a few inches. Rode great too.

And for the WP that want to talk about stopping. News flash: The trailer brakes stop the trailer.
rhagfo
Explorer III
Feb 17, 2017
helpmetow wrote:
Old-Biscuit wrote:
I am one that has been labeled 'weight police' and that's OK by me.......I don't care

Here are MY Standards
OK if over Trucks GVWR........many times that is a number that can be massaged IE: can be register at higher GVWR

I use RAWR, Rear Tire Max Load Ratings and CGVWR
If at/under the above then hookup and tow
Over on any then a 'personal decision' has to be made.....use axle mfg. specs, change rear tires/wheels to higher load rating.

2005 2500 is good up to 12K 5th wheel----14K is too much weight
I tow 14K with my 2007 3500.......maxed out on RAWR/Rear Tire Max Load ratings and over on Trucks GVWR (10,100---scaled at 10,800 with 2980 pin weight)

Again ..to much trailer for your 2005 2500.

I agree with all of this, however the charts I've seen rate the 2005 2500HD at 16k max on a 5th wheel, I am however right at rear GAWR and will likely be over by ~200lbs when said and done. I think I agree, likely time for a bigger truck.

I am NOT the weight police as I tow over GVWR, BUT DON'T recommend to others, as it is personal choice.

I will say if you need 70 psi in your air bags to level your rig you don't have enough basic spring.

I carry as much pin as you, and have not yet considered bags, as I don't even get to the overloads.
PA12DRVR
Explorer
Feb 17, 2017
As noted above, only you, the driver, can decide which of the OEM's recommendations you'll pay attention to or which you'll ignore. For me, I'll follow the recommendations and not substitute my judgment for theirs. If you go that same path, a bigger truck is needed.

If you decide to selectively believe the OEM's recommendation (meaning you ignore some) than it is entirely up to you what you drive and tow.

Your choice.

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How heavy is TOO heavy? GVWR on a 2500

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