Increasing Tongue Weight on Nissan NV3500 (or in general)

I'm going to resurrect this old thread to see if the OP has made any headway since posting the topic.

Nissan's 2015 NVP SL owner's manual is interesting and without talking to a Nissan engineer, I'm not sure you can get a better answer than what's in the book. There are a few things that are clear:

1) I'm nearly positive the RAWR is not the limiting factor for the tongue weight spec in the manual... The van has a huge cargo capacity and while I haven't weighed ours travel-ready yet, I am sure there is more than 870 lbs available on the rear axle after my family of 7 is loaded. We will be pulling the entire fourth row of seats plus 1 from the third row (~300 lbs of seats that are all sitting behind the rear axle) since we only need 7 seats for the trip. The total cargo capacity for the van is ~2,800 lbs with all the seats in. Even with my family and what gear we wouldn't put in the TT, we're under 1,200 lbs cargo weight. Figure by removing seats and adding my family, the van still has 1,900 lbs of net cargo capacity---and I'm (nearly) sure at least half of that is available on the rear axle, if not more.

2) The cargo version of this van with no seats can tow 9500 w/ a 950 lb. tongue rating... From talking with Nissan, it has the same receiver as the passenger version... Which means the receiver isn't the component creating the 870lb limit... and so if its not the receiver and its not the RAWR what is it?

Here's another interesting thing to consider, from Nissan's owner's manual for this vehicle which can be found here:

http://www.nissancommercialvehicles.com/media/pdf/2015-Nissan-NV-Passenger-Van-OM.pdf

From PAGE 9-22:

"Weight distribution hitch --- This type of hitch is also called a “load-leveling” or “equalizing” hitch. A set of bars attach to the ball mount and to the trailer to distribute the tongue weight (hitch weight) of your trailer. Many vehicles can’t carry the full tongue weight of a given trailer, and need some of the tongue weight transferred through the frame and pushing down on the front wheels. This gives stability to the tow vehicle.

A weight-distributing hitch system (Class IV) is recommended if you plan to tow trailers with a maximum weight over 5,000 lbs (2,268 kg). Check with the trailer and towing equipment manufacturers to determine if they recommend the use of a weight-distributing hitch system."

The wording of this implies to me that Nissan *thinks* that a WD hitch effectively distributes the tongue weight in a manner that would allow for increased tongue weight over what would be allowed WITHOUT a WD system. This is contrary to what I have read here and in other threads - but we really need to get inside the heads of the folks at Nissan who put a tongue weight spec inside of the owner's manual without any obvious justification.

From a practical and common sense standpoint, you should be able to use whatever available payload capacity you have left for the trailer tongue, as long as you do not exceed the rear axle rating of the van.

If, after everyone and everything is loaded to travel, you weigh the van and you have 1200lbs of payload capacity before reaching the GVWR or RAWR of the van, you should be able to tow a trailer with up to 1200lbs of tongue weight.

The limiting factor is almost certainly the receiver on the van, which is rated for 870lbs.

The aftermarket hitch rated to 1000lbs will let you tow with up to 1000lbs of tongue weight, AS LONG AS you do not exceed the GVWR or RAWR of the van.

The aftermarket hitch manufacturer would be liable if it caused problems, so they have certainly taken some precautions to ensure there will be no issues.

APT wrote:
Nissan may have a better answer. It does seem like the limit is the receiver, giving all the other specifications of that van.

First time I have ever seen a tongue weight spec in an owner's manual. What concerns me is that since the receiver itself isn't labeled with this spec, it's hard to say if the receiver itself is the limiting factor. It may be how the receiver attaches to the frame, or the strength of the frame where it attaches that is the limiting factor.

Could be they use one receiver that's rated at 1000 lbs across all models, then its capacity is limited by model based on how/where it's attached.

I don't have any specific knowledge on these vehicles, so just tossing this out for consideration.

brulaz wrote:

john&bet wrote:
I can only guess Cummins must have upgraded the hitch on thier NV3500 test mules pulling a concrete ballast loaded trailer while testing the 5.0L diesel. Yip I saw them running around Columbus.

Really?

They're putting the Cummins 5L in the NV3500 as well as the Titan?

Makes sense, but I've nver heard them announce it.

Just one of the perks of living close to the Cummins World HQ. and lots of test facilities. I see all kinds of stuff every now and then.

john&bet wrote:
I can only guess Cummins must have upgraded the hitch on thier NV3500 test mules pulling a concrete ballast loaded trailer while testing the 5.0L diesel. Yip I saw them running around Columbus.

Really?

They're putting the Cummins 5L in the NV3500 as well as the Titan?

Makes sense, but I've nver heard them announce it.

I can only guess Cummins must have upgraded the hitch on thier NV3500 test mules pulling a concrete ballast loaded trailer while testing the 5.0L diesel. Yip I saw them running around Columbus.

I would just bolt that Curt C14000 Hitch Receiver on there.
It's rated for 1200# TW with a WDH.
You've got lots of payload, and its a 3500 class Van, your GAWR must be right up there.

ElementZero wrote:
Yeah I have the 2014 NV 3500 SL but I can't see the 1000 (or anything for that matter) stamped on the hitch, just that sticker that says look at the manual. I'm not sure if you have a 2013 one (since you talk about downshifting in the pm whereas I would just put on the tow mode) and it used to be stamped on there and now it's not? I also didn't see it listed on the towing package for 1000 - do you have a link (not that I don't believe you but would like to show it to a Nissan guy when I call them so they can't just brush me off - I tried calling them yesterday but just tossed around between sales and the mechanics haha).

And no, they don't have a different listing for non-WD and WD in the manual, something I thought was interesting as well since all the other third-party hitches I could put on the van have that distinction.

I really think Nissan just might be being super conservative and/or taking the easy route by just setting the tongue weight to 10% of the max tow power which should force you into never going past the max towing capacity for multiple reasons *shrugs*.

Yeah, like I said, it's kinda ridiculous / confusing.
Right of the Nissan website for the SL HD package in addition to the SV version ( info trimmed down for space) note upgrade class IV hitch listed:

"Standard towing equipment with 8,700 lb towing capacity

5.6L DOHC 32 Valve V8 Engine
3.54:1 Axle Ratio
Extendable Outside Chrome Tow Mirrors w/ Heat
Front (2) Tow Hooks w/ Tow Mode AT
Class-IV Receiver Hitch
7-Pin Connector Pre-Wiring
Brake Controller Pre-Wiring"


The difference between class 3 and class 4 hitch is really just the addition of bolts securing the center section to the bumper. Class 3 doesn't have those bolts. You can see the mount points to each side of the receiver opening in the hitch you posted in that link earlier.

The manual does talk about calculating tongue load and states to keep it at 10 to 15 % of trailer weight. They go into great detail about how much weight is inside the van and not exceeding the axle weight rating and gives numbers which I think does assume you will carry a good bit inside the van.
I know I found the 1000lb max rating with WDH setup somewhere when I started with my NV because I was also very concerned that I didn't want to overwork the van or tow unsafely, but I can't remember where it was or find the info now.


So yeah, I think they are rating it conservatively. Especially when you compare it to the cargo van version with a payload of nearly 4K lbs / tow 9500, versus the passenger version of 2460 payload and tow 8700.
I know there's 1500 pounds of interior / trim and so on added to the passenger version (although I think those two rear seats saved me 300 pounds by removing them), but the 10 to 15 % tongue load on a cargo van would still be 1000lbs tongue weight, so it's not like it will break the frame in half to go over that 870 tongue weight they list for the passenger version. You just have to watch out for your axle weight.

And I do tow in tow mode - it still shifts through all the gears, just times it differently so you will downshift a gear climbing a hill, but it holds highway speed just fine and has the power to accelerate if need be, even with 7 or 8 K lbs of "house" behind it.
Tow mode also gives you engine braking (startled me the first time that happened - but now I have learned to use it).

I also didn't bother asking the Nissan dealer since towing is not generally thier thing. Nor did trust the RV dealer when they looked up the cargo van specs and said "9500 lbs - you'll be fine - buy this TT!". But I did ask around and checked out a few vans through work (customer work vans and they are very happy with them) and took a bit of a chance it'd be ok when we decided to buy an NV.

Yeah I have the 2014 NV 3500 SL but I can't see the 1000 (or anything for that matter) stamped on the hitch, just that sticker that says look at the manual. I'm not sure if you have a 2013 one (since you talk about downshifting in the pm whereas I would just put on the tow mode) and it used to be stamped on there and now it's not? I also didn't see it listed on the towing package for 1000 - do you have a link (not that I don't believe you but would like to show it to a Nissan guy when I call them so they can't just brush me off - I tried calling them yesterday but just tossed around between sales and the mechanics haha).

And no, they don't have a different listing for non-WD and WD in the manual, something I thought was interesting as well since all the other third-party hitches I could put on the van have that distinction.

I really think Nissan just might be being super conservative and/or taking the easy route by just setting the tongue weight to 10% of the max tow power which should force you into never going past the max towing capacity for multiple reasons *shrugs*.

To the OP, After our PM exchange, I came looking for the discussion to give more detail.

The info on the NV is a bit confusing, I learned that first hand when we bought ours.

One of these days I want to get the whole setup to a scale and get the actual weights, but I'm comfortable with it.

Unfortunately, the SV version does not have the best equipment for towing in the upper weight ranges. The weight limits are the same on the van, but the list of standard features on the SL make towing better: standard V8, different axle ratio (a big key point, IMO), receiver hitch is rated for 1000lbs tongue weight (with weight dist, of course, and not listed in the regular owners manual). In an SV model, I think I'd try very hard to stay within the listed weights, especially if it's V6 powered.

We shopped for a TT in the 6500lb dry weight range, knowing we'd add another 1k in gear. We ended up MAYBE pushing right at 8K fully loaded / ready to camp for a week at the heaviest. We don't usually haul too heavy on household goods / personal gear as our kids are grown and someone usually drives a car from another location with more of that stuff of their own.

The tongue weight issue is a slight problem - they list 1000 on the hitch and even state that for the HD towing package, but then say 870 on the van inside the owners manual. Well which is it? I took the entire picture into account for my setup: We don't need all the seats since we never travel with more than 6 of us (usually only 3 or 4 and a dog), so I pulled out the last row of seats (and they weigh a lot). We pack some supplies and luggage in the van and a canoe on the roof, but not packed to gills - lots of stuff goes in the camper for ease of use. I'd guess even with tongue weight being about 80 pounds over (have a tongue scale and weighed it @ 950 -- but still under the hitches rating), we are way under the rated capacity of the van with about 500 lbs to spare. The suspension doesn't squat but about an inch when I hitch up, before snapping up the WD bars, and all tires have the same look to them - not overly squashed in the rear.
I believe Nissan set the ratings conservatively to account for the maximums - the people who will load 12 people in it and 1000 pounds of luggage inside and THEN hitch up a TT that's the heaviest they think they can get away with towing.

Again, My big concern for an SV model would be power train - it's gonna work harder pulling a big load without the other axle ratio and even worse if it's a V-6 engine. I'm also unsure of trans cooler equipped or not on a SV.