I purchased a 2013 GMC 3500 with a duramax diesel engine.....I filled it up, took it on a road trip down the interstate 65 miles to the next town then turned around came back and refilled it. 17.3 mpg.....so I installed a K & N filter expecting to better my mpg......Wrong answer my milage went down 3-5 miles per gallon. I wonder if I was expecting too much to even main tain the milage.....what went wrong? could the gas station fuel pump been wrong?

My sons both are mechanical, one had K&Ns' on his gas rig after awhile he removed and replaced with the original. Not good for him. Sorry to hear you spent your beer money on that one. The other son works in a shop and they have a trash can full of them.:h

Bad deal, good way to dust a motor.JR

JR45 wrote:Bad deal, good way to dust a motor.JRHow would you dust a motor with one of these?

I'm not a K&N fan personally; the design of the air intake may be a variable, but I had one on my previous 2002 Land Cruiser & upon taking apart & cleaning the manifold I was astounded how much buildup of fine dust was present.OEM paper elements in all my vehicles since. I'll trade cleaner air coming into my motors over a couple of HP @ WOT.Disclaimer: Others may have different experience with K&N, only relaying mine FWIW.

Let's too much dirt through.See it happen many times.

K & N filter change | Good Sam Community

135 Replies

Huntindog
Explorer
Nov 08, 2013
Hannibal wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Set the filter in and snap the cover on... How could it be an installation problem?

That comment right there is why some people have problems with their "oil" filters.;)

Something wrong with the K&N that this simple procedure doesn't work with it? It works fine with any filter I've ever used.

And that as I have said before is why most people shouldn't use one. K&Ns are NOT for the drop it in and forget crowd. Most don't bother to READ the instructions that come with any products..
Those are the ones that should definantly stick with the paper filters, and their shortcomings as they are difficult for the consumer to screw up.
Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Nov 08, 2013
...

I think the K&N's filtering specs might vary a bit from application to application, but I didn't like what I had seen with my own eyes when I first looked close at one.

Like I mentioned before, the one I received as a "bonus" with other equipment looked like it had as much sorry filtering integrity as a fuzzy window screen. Because of experience with moto-X bikes, I know the key is how much dirt is presented to the engine air filter because some of it always seems to leak by at some point.

No doubt a man could go for years without substancial engine wear failure on clean roads using any loose weave filter. But I'll bet no US military vehicle uses the open type I got, at least not since Desert Storm. I would actually hesitate to buy a vehicle if I knew that a K&N was run on it, unless I got a really good price break.

This website summed up my opinion nicely:Debunking the K&N Myth – Why OEM is Better

Wes
...
Passin_Thru
Explorer
Nov 08, 2013
I have used them for about 250,000 miles and never had an issue. If properly cleaned with soapy water, let dry and spray with oil and let it dry I have never seen any dirt in my intake or any sticky residue on the impellers of the Turbo. Right now I run a 2006 Duramax tuned up 60 hp and I get 17.5 at 75 MPH from VA-OK or VA-FL, 10.5-10.8 with an 18000 lb gross load. I use Power Service in the fuel and depending where I buy the mileage can vary. Also, you can't buy 1 tank of fuel and call it average, you need about a 1500 mile or better test.If you don't believe me, take it to the Chevy shop, spend $175.00 to have them tell you theres nothing wrong. Chevy computers and gauges are notoriously wrong. Get on the Duramax forum and see what they say.
Hannibal
Explorer
Nov 07, 2013
Hank85713 wrote:
for the deny warranty coverage that is a good try. 1st the company has to PROVE that the failure is related to the changed component (fed law). Also the thing about causing the MAS to fail has really never been proven and chebby tried to indicate that caused their problems some years ago (and to my knowledge never did).

Other tests have shown that the oiling had nothing to do with sensor failures. I have a K&N on my ranger for over 150000 miles truck runs fine. Has had issues with other things not air filter related but more due to age. My son has one on his F150, got a CEL we researched and its due to dirty MAF so we cleaned with proper cleaner no more CEL. People can say and o whatever they want but when they join a band wagon be it against K&N, Ford 6.0 engines or whatever they just keep on going and going like the little bunny. Many have no direct knowledge or take the talk of others as gospel and repeat it to others as.... Anyhow, K&N filters were recommended to me by a exhaust company (national well respected) as an aid in getting the most out of their exhaust. Now would they do that if there were issues? Dont think so. So if ya have one use it, if ya dont or never have, just sit back and keep on keepin on. No need to make claims that can't be actually proven.

You might enjoy reading the actual Magnuson Moss Act instead of aftermarket manufacturers' glossed over interpretations of it. It protects the manufacturer as much as the consumer. Your warranty is an agreement between you and the manufacturer. If "you" break that written agreement, your warranty is over by your choice, not the manufacturer. If the warranty states in writing that the use of a non OEM type replacement part will void the warranty, then it is perfectly legal for the manufacturer to deny warranty coverage on that alone.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-50
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Nov 07, 2013
DirtyOil wrote:
Fram air filters are fine, but their oil filters are dreadful. Note: Fram bought LOTS of people new engines when their filters killed Cummins 5.9's!

As they say in RV.NET ..."ya got any links?" At least Fram uses a metal core, unlike Amsoil's plastic core... if yer running a race motor with higher oil pressure, wonder which one you'd use?

Purolator!

Note: I have only seen one filter burst due to pressure. It was a Fram PH8A.

Uh-oh ... Better go shoot my truck now. Not only do I use the K&N Filtercharger panel filter, I also regularly use the top tier Fram filter for my engine. Add to that the Hypertech in my sig and I hope my truck gets me to the office tomorrow ...

Sorry wmoses...better run and get yer gun... Fram is a OEM supplier to GM for oil filters...wait!! you said yer using the "top tier" you might be ok! :W gotta luv the interweb myths eh?

Yes...Fram's $10 filter is as good as Purolator's $3 filter.

you tube vid of a guy cutting a "Fram" filter apart that was on his Ferrari shows that it was collapsed (at least the center core looked collapsed) and metal shavings in the filter material... it looked good right up till he says that the filter had been on another car for some time before he put it on the Ferrari...and ppl wonder why Fram failed... might as well drain the 7000 mile oil out of the the oil diesel burner and dump it into the wife Beemer... should be ok!?

I have cut apart many filters...and without fail, the worst out there are Frams. (AZ's STP and their many E-core clones are pretty bad, but Fram is worse.) Wal-Mart has Purolator Classics for <$4...why pay more to get less?! Note: the Puros all are US-made. Many of the Frams are not!
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Nov 07, 2013
Me Again wrote:
Rink wrote:
We're one mile of gravel road to the blacktop from the house. Installed K&N's in Jeep Liberty diesel and the 2000 Dodge diesel (Edge with Attitude) when bought new. 272,000 on the Dodge, 74,000 on the Jeep. I clean the K&N's about once every 9 months. No dust past the filters. They work for me! But if I was the OP and after reading 10 pages of negative responses I'd be running to NAPA for the paper to.

So you are running oil analyst regularly and have verified that your K&N filters are not letting dust by? That goes for everyone. Show us your oil analyst reports. Or is your finger better than a lab on checking on this?

Chris

Had oil analysed on my Jeep. The HIGHEST silicon reading was with a paper filter. Had oil analysed on my Caddy. The K&N is filtering fine. (The engine in it has never run with a paper filter more than a few miles.)
Rink
Explorer
Nov 07, 2013
Me Again wrote:
Rink wrote:
We're one mile of gravel road to the blacktop from the house. Installed K&N's in Jeep Liberty diesel and the 2000 Dodge diesel (Edge with Attitude) when bought new. 272,000 on the Dodge, 74,000 on the Jeep. I clean the K&N's about once every 9 months. No dust past the filters. They work for me! But if I was the OP and after reading 10 pages of negative responses I'd be running to NAPA for the paper to.

So you are running oil analyst regularly and have verified that your K&N filters are not letting dust by? That goes for everyone. Show us your oil analyst reports. Or is your finger better than a lab on checking on this?

Chris

Why in the world would I run an oil analysis....NOW....on a 13 year old truck with 272,000 miles that runs like the day I bought it???????? And as for the Ram people not honoring their warranty if you have a K&N filter.........The Dodge dealer, where I bought the truck, sold it to me and the Jeep dealer where we got the Jeep sold us the K&N before we drove it off the lot. As for my finger test....it has served me just fine over my lifetime. The rest of this mumbojumbo is just that. Reminds of the sky is falling....the sky is falling...
cdlaine
Explorer
Nov 07, 2013
Man, I love the passion brought when folks talk about their
air filters !

My 2 cents... (truck is a gasser)

K&N placed immed. after our purchase of truck (03"), have re-oiled
it once (as you can see by the photo I over shot ..."small" amount of pooling in case)...
but tried to follow their on line instructions). 85K mileage.

-No problems with MAF sensor (as far as I can tell , I'm not a gear head...truck seems to run fine).

-I placed the filter originally secondary to marketing and what all the gear heads were
humming about on forums at the time...

-I have no idea if I get more power/torque/HP/mpg or runs better or worse then OEM...
truck seems to do o.k..

-I have no indication that downstream dust will soon lead to catastrophic fail. I don't run off-road,
and pull over and shut the engine off during AZ. haboobs.

-What I can see (with flashlight)...filter, conduit, unit, screen seems to indicate just about
the same dust level I had on previous vehicles with my cardboard air filters.

-So, totally unscientific (only one healthy volunteer) I'll probably stay with the K&N ,
but, my loyalty is subject to marketing and forum intelligence...so, I may change my mind
next week ! Who knows ? ... I seem to lack appropriate air filter passion....need to work on that.

Here is a photo spread of what I found this a.m. in the K&N housing... I think things look ok...
truck seems to run fine, and when I stomp on the throttle it still snaps my head back.

Thanks for making me check out the filter.

Charles
Hank85713
Explorer
Nov 07, 2013
for the deny warranty coverage that is a good try. 1st the company has to PROVE that the failure is related to the changed component (fed law). Also the thing about causing the MAS to fail has really never been proven and chebby tried to indicate that caused their problems some years ago (and to my knowledge never did).

Other tests have shown that the oiling had nothing to do with sensor failures. I have a K&N on my ranger for over 150000 miles truck runs fine. Has had issues with other things not air filter related but more due to age. My son has one on his F150, got a CEL we researched and its due to dirty MAF so we cleaned with proper cleaner no more CEL. People can say and o whatever they want but when they join a band wagon be it against K&N, Ford 6.0 engines or whatever they just keep on going and going like the little bunny. Many have no direct knowledge or take the talk of others as gospel and repeat it to others as.... Anyhow, K&N filters were recommended to me by a exhaust company (national well respected) as an aid in getting the most out of their exhaust. Now would they do that if there were issues? Dont think so. So if ya have one use it, if ya dont or never have, just sit back and keep on keepin on. No need to make claims that can't be actually proven.
720Deere
Explorer
Nov 07, 2013
Turtle n Peeps wrote:

I too would like to know what is so special about the K&N that takes a rocket scientist to install them correctly? :h

Just my worthless opinion here, but every filter application is different. Some drop in filters are just that and so simple a caveman could do it. The K&N filter on my 2001 Toyota 4Runner required a plastic adapter cage to make it fit properly. In this specific application, it took a little more effort than simply dropping the filter in and shutting the lid. It was real easy to mess up. Claiming improper installation covers a lot of issues, but it doesn't necessarily mean negligence by the installer. Some of the issues with oiled filters are user error in the way they are oiled. There is a fine line between enough oil to cover the filter for best dust protection and spraying enough oil on it to foul the MAF sensor. Again what is right or wrong will differ between the various different vehicles and applications.

For the people that ask why the OEMs don't use a K&N type filter if they are superior (I'm not saying that they are), there are numerous reasons why they wouldn't. As a manufacturer you have warranty concerns and part of covering your backside on that concern is to make sure that the vehicle is reasonably serviceable by the average consumer. The average consumer is not capable of or willing to properly service an oiled filter and as stated above some applications can be difficult to service properly.

I have used K&N filters in several applications with success and I have also had oil fouled MAF issues. I tend to err to the side of caution and have a habit of over-oiling the filters. I discontinued the use of such filters a few years ago either because the vehicle it was in was sold and/or I bought a newer vehicle that already had a superior filtration system from the factory. I have no desire to install these filters in any of my current vehicles. The older I get, the more I tend to leave the Pep Boys parking lot modifications to the younger generation!

Forum Discussion

K & N filter change

135 Replies

About Travel Trailer Group

Related Content

Payload changes on Hills

Oil and filter change

Changing air filter

Fuel filter change

Changing Gererator Fuel Filter