My wife and I purchased our first TT about two weeks ago. Since my signature went on the dotted line the problems grow worse. First of all, I have never done any RV'ing; my wife has done some before we met. To assure that we have a good experience, I decided to buy a brand new 2014 TT. We have our first camping trip scheduled to begin this Wednesday. However, things are just not going well:We appeared at the dealer service center on Wednesday 6/26 as agreed, but were told that there was a "small" water leak that needed to be fixed and the dealer would deliver it the next dayThursday rolled around and got a call that the process was taking a bit longer. They would deliver on Friday.The TT arrived on Friday and we received our orientation. We hooked up to a hose on our property using a pressure regulator and filter. All seemed very good.Saturday: we started moving gear into the TT and we were purging the fresh water tank to get out the chlorine. We noticed water coming from the shower. We called the dealer who suggested we try some silicone caulk around the shower. We did this and the leak appeared to be gone. We resumed city water and went to bed.Sunday Morning: The membrane covering the bottom of the TT looked pregnant and water was streaming out of the opening for the low water drain valves. We disconnected city water. There was also water on the floor coming from the shower area.Sunday morning a bit later: We managed to reach the dealer and expressed our frustration and concern. I spoke to the sales manager who seemed more intent on forestalling a law suit than helping me. He did agree to have the TT picked up in the morning.That's where we are now. We have made substantial deposits to the campground (it is July 4 weekend, after all) and the dog kennel; all non-refundable. My wife says that her family bought many TT's, often used, and never had this much trouble. As for me, I am very frustrated. At the least, I expected the dealer to find us a substitute we could use on our planned trip. I thought that we could just do an exchange for the same model. The sales manager took great pains to explain that the warranty was between us and the manufacturer (Dutchman, Thor Industries) and not him. In all my years of purchasing vehicles I have never heard that before.I reminded him that his dealership Fife RV in Fife Washington, owed its customers better treatment. He was completely unwilling to commit to anything beyond taking it in for service.I don't have any previous experience to compare with this, but I am a very unhappy camper right now. I am concerned that even if they fix the leak, we could get mold below the floor that could prove toxic to us. Since this is the 2nd attempt in less than a week to deal with a water leak, I expected a lot more help from Fife RV in Fife WA. What is your experience with RV dealers and with TT's like mine? Am I being unreasonable? Do I have some recourse if my vacation has to be cancelled? (Sorry I got into this whole RV thing)

I think you should return it and get your money back, if your dealer is amicable. You are right about not being ready for the RV thing.If a small water leak will dissuade you from RVing then this is clearly not the hobby for you, as you will have many other warranty and non-warranty repairs before you are done. Have you ever bought a new car and had a small water leak or other manufacturer defect? This is normal with something this complex.Now that the dealer has it, I'm sure that the leak can be fixed and the defective fitting or plumbing replaced. If there was damage caused by the leak, then this should be repaired too. How is this any different from buying a new house and finding a small, easily repaired water leak? Would this discourage you from home ownership? If you decide to keep your camper and your state allows incidental or consequential damages then you have a legal recourse with the RV manufacturer for the campground fees lost (as long as you mitigate the damage by canceling the reservation and getting what you could refunded).Remember the dealer didn't build your RV, so did not cause and is not responsible for the leak, only for ensuring it is repaired within a reasonable time (usually within 3 trips to the shop) to avoid having it returned for a replacement under most state's lemon laws.I don't mean to sound harsh, as I know you are upset and disappointed, as I would be under a similar situation. However your problem sounds very minor compared to the "bugs" that most people find and have repaired in their new RV. Look forward to more in the near future.Chip

Sorry you are having trouble. It is unfortunate that so many problems are shipped from the factory with the attitude that the owner and dealer can work it out. Talk to the service department in the morning and see when they expect to have it repaired. Hopefully it is something simple and at worst you will only miss the first day of camping. They should give you some priority for your repair. I would then contact the manufacturer tomorrow and let them know your situation. Ask them if they can help you in any way. If the leak is repaired and the area allowed to dry pretty quick hopefully there will no mold problem.

Unfortunately, your story is all too common if you hang around long enough; just look at sushidogs comment about "If a small water leak will dissuade you from RVing then this is clearly not the hobby for you, as you will have many other warranty and non-warranty repairs before you are done. Have you ever bought a new car and had a small water leak or other manufacturer defect? This is normal with something this complex."You (your wife?) chose RV'ing as a hobby, shouldn't have to take up "Fixing the brand new RV" as hobby as well. Personally, I don't think a box on wheels is particularily "complex", more that the mfr's roll out PoS's with no QC. I know if I just dropped 30K, hell even 10K on something, brand new, the damn thing should not leak. About the dealer, yeah, that's common too. You'll hear a lot about dealers who refuse to service something that was bought somewhere else. Never had that problem with Ford. Good luck with Fife RV, FWIW, I friend did buy from them, and he has been happy with their service.

If a fair amount of water ended up in the bottom of the trailer, I would think the insulation is soaked. I would think they would need to remove and replace it to avoid having a bunch of moldy insulation and flooring.If so, maybe you could work out something where they strip off the membrane and insulation, fix the cause of the leak, then let you take the trailer for the weekend while the bottom dries out - assuming you don't have to haul it in torrential rains.Don

The last thing the OP and wife should have to do is take up fixing a brand new RV as a "hobby". There's far too much junk escaping from factories and should be sent back to the factory to be dealt with. it's not a dealer or customer problem. The factory should provide a brand new, "unflooded" model. I would hate to see the mess of mold growing in the first one, regardless of repairs. I would tend to believe if the underbelly looked like a pregnant whale, then there's probably water seepage in between the layers of flooring and into the walls by capillary action. If I was to buy a brand new unused one, the dealer would be doing a full fill and water pressure test along with making sure the holding tanks actually hold it in. For the OP and wife, wish you the best and don't hold back from legal action.

Kodiak 2014 279RBSL Looks like a lemon | Good Sam Community

threecamprs
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
Last month we purchased a 2014 Dutchmen also made by Thor. We did our research and based upon friends recommendations, decided to go with Thor. Recently ABC News did a segment on the RV Industry and how it is back in business. "American made with American pride" they were saying throughout the segment. I'm sorry, but not much pride went into the production of our travel trailer either. We have upside down door hardware, crooked hardware, and several things wrong with the camper. None are as serious as your thankfully. We too are somewhat new to RVing/camping.

I must say the dealer we purchased from has been exceptional in getting the necessary repairs made. They have made what was a not so good experience, a good one.

I've read nightmares of people buying $100k motorhomes and the cabinets are falling off the walls; bad breaks, etc. If you read through these forums there are so many pages of these nightmares. These companies need to stand up and produce a quality trailer/motorhome and have better quality control. I wish they fell under the rules of the NTSB.
opnspaces
Navigator II
Jul 01, 2013
Wow Bob, let me say that this situation sucks and I know I'd be upset. I think that if I were you (and if I didn't have to work today), I'd be driving to the dealership right about now to see how it's going. I would be there respectfully wanting to see what the underside looked like, see what all got wet, and see what their plan is to fix it.

If the floor got wet I would be requesting the leak repaired and the underbelly left open for at least a week to dry out. Of course since you also have a trip planned I would let them know that I need to use the trailer while it's undergoing it's week dry out period.

One of my reasons for being there in person is to help politely convince them that just doing something like slicing open the underbelly and pushing it out into the back lot for a few weeks is not the way this repair is going to go.

Remember if there is any fiberglass insulation that got wet, it will have to be replaced. This stuff just does not dry out and maintain it's original loft.

Keep us informed, and hopefully you'll get to use it this weekend.
Seattle_Lion
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
I placed a call to Dutchman's VP of quality and warranty earlier this morning. I was just called back by the warranty manager. He spoke to my dealer and authorized not only fixing the leak, but also replacing the belly pan with a new one. He was very customer oriented and made me feel that Dutchman will do whatever it takes to make things right.

Too bad that Fife RV's sales manager thinks it is on me to assure the warranty work is done. The service rep at Fife is extremely helpful and expressed his regret this happened. We don't have a final diagnoses yet, but Dutchman thinks that a PEX fitting was improperly crimped and the fitting let go.

Hopefully, we have a happy ending. By the way, he admitted that Dutchman has a lot of trouble getting dealers to do warranty work on trailers that they didn't sell. Clearly the RV industry needs to grow up and follow the car companies' lead in terms of manufacturing quality and customer service.

There is a chance I will be able to make my first trip on Wednesday. Stay tuned...

Bob
Bears_Den
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
Sorry to hear you are having issues. My 2014 279rbsl has been a gem so far and the two minor issues I had were taken care of by the dealer. Good luck...
westend
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
Fisherman wrote:
I think it extremely unreasonable to have to expect warranty issues, especially on a brand new RV, other than maybe a bad light bulb or two. The poor state of manufacturing in North America is directly the result of poor shoddy and lazy workmanship, no wonder people want to buy from off shore.
IMO, the quality of the finished product can't be shouldered by the workers. The mfg. puts policies in place to either increase the durability and reliability of their product or chooses to turn out units as quickly as possible. I know that some US mfg.'s pay workers by piece. When working in that environment, the worker has little concern whether plumbing is absolutely correct but is only good enough for acceptance at the factory.
It may be that Thor does adhere to strict quality control but a transportation mishap caused a fitting to loosen. It would only take one small part to fail while the water system was pressurized to cause the type of water flooding the OP describes.
Regardless, the dealer has a big stake in this and should be falling all over themselves in addressing the customer's concerns. The Sales Manager's response, absolving the dealership of responsibility, is ludicrous. In essence, they sold a defective product. Warranty agreements notwithstanding, no business can sell defective product and hope to continue in business.
Hoping the OP can get some relief from the situation and that the matter is brought to a swift conclusion. If the trailer is repaired correctly, there shouldn't be mold issues or any other consequent problems. Good luck with your repairs.
Doug33
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
If that had happened to me last week when I tried using my new camper for the first time, I would have been outraged. We all end up fixing a few minor problems once in a while - it's expected. Last weekend on the maiden voyage I was tightening some fittings in the plumbing and some other screws, connections, etc, that probably loosened during shipment. But to have a massive water leak that in turn caused many other problems in a brand new TT is UNACCEPTABLE and they need to make it right. When you get an order screwed up or something in your meal that wasn't supposed to be there, the management of the restaurant are apologetic and offer free meals to compensate. Meanwhile the RV manufacturer and dealer are acting like it's an inconvenience to them to have to fix something on the TT. Ugh.
Seattle_Lion
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
stripit wrote:
I for one just can not fathom how after all these years of the manufacturers building these trailer and even motorhomes we still as consumers have to deal with this shoddy workmanship, or inferior parts. There is no excuse for it, other than the buying customer just accepts it as the way things are. No auto manufacturer out there would be in business if only 1/10 of the cars they made were this bad right from the start. I feel for the original posters problems and disappointment. The dealer's sales manager has the wrong attitude and is not someone I would ever have working for me. As a past business owner we did everything possible to make the customer feel his money was well spent with my business and wanted them to tell others. Only in this case the telling others is negative and can only hurt the dealership as opposed to helping. Hope they get it fixed for you and soon!

Thanks for your support. I called Dutchman this morning and let them know what was happening and how unhappy I am with their quality control. I got the feeling that they have heard this so many times before that all I got was, "the dealer has to make a warranty claim". I pointed out that I am the customer. I put in a call to the VP for quality (what a joke!) and warranty (got to be the busiest department at Dutchman) to see if he can intervene.

Bob
Seattle_Lion
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
subcamper wrote:
In the least, the dealer should remove the underbelly cover completely, replace any insulation that got wet, and let everything dry out completely before reassembling.

My new TT had a very loose drain connection under the sink which I didn't notice right away because it was filling the drawer that was located right under it. During the first 2 years of ownership I fixed a large amount of small items and a few big ones (tank improperly attached and could have fallen out).
Steve

Steve, we had the same loose connection under the sink. That was a minor problem that I fixed. The dealer came this morning to get the trailer. He had to cut the membrane to get water out. It was well over 100 gallons. The TT was untowable until he could get it out.

Bob
2012Coleman
Explorer II
Jul 01, 2013
sushidog wrote:
2012Coleman wrote:
sushidog wrote:
I think you should return it and get your money back, if your dealer is amicable. You are right about not being ready for the RV thing.

If a small water leak will dissuade you from RVing then this is clearly not the hobby for you, as you will have many other warranty and non-warranty repairs before you are done. Have you ever bought a new car and had a small water leak or other manufacturer defect? This is normal with something this complex.

Now that the dealer has it, I'm sure that the leak can be fixed and the defective fitting or plumbing replaced. If there was damage caused by the leak, then this should be repaired too. How is this any different from buying a new house and finding a small, easily repaired water leak? Would this discourage you from home ownership? If you decide to keep your camper and your state allows incidental or consequential damages then you have a legal recourse with the RV manufacturer for the campground fees lost (as long as you mitigate the damage by canceling the reservation and getting what you could refunded).

Remember the dealer didn't build your RV, so did not cause and is not responsible for the leak, only for ensuring it is repaired within a reasonable time (usually within 3 trips to the shop) to avoid having it returned for a replacement under most state's lemon laws.

I don't mean to sound harsh, as I know you are upset and disappointed, as I would be under a similar situation. However your problem sounds very minor compared to the "bugs" that most people find and have repaired in their new RV. Look forward to more in the near future.
Chip
Well, Chip, if this was your first time experience with a brand new flooded out - yes flooded - read the post again, I'll bet your ability to just suck it up would be escaping you as well. The dealer did'nt sond like he was very amicable to me. He didn't have a small water leak, and it doesn't sound minor to me or a lot of others who read your useless reply.

Well if it's damaged beyond repair (which it doesn't sound like it to me) it needs to be replaced, but that's still no reason to give up RVing. What would you have recommended the OP do? Get an attorney before the dealer/manufacturer even has a chance to assess the damage and repair it to the OPs satisfaction? I just think it's unreasonable not to expect a few warranty issues on a new RV - given the relatively poor state of manufacturing that exists today.

I purchased a camper where the axle was positioned incorrectly in the wheel well so that the tires rubbed the inside fender well. I had to move the axle to correct this manufacturing defect. I did so myself, (not an easy task) to correct the problem with no help from the either the dealer or the manufacturer. However at no time did I consider throwing in the towel because of a single, correctable problem. I have since enjoyed many years of happy camping from this unit. If I had over-reacted and quit RVing then I would have been the loser, not anyone else.

Just because you may disagree with an opinion doesn't mean you have to be disrespectful.

Chip
Disrespectful? me?? Brand new member posts abou his new TT being flooded and you say:
If a small water leak will dissuade you from RVing then this is clearly not the hobby for you, as you will have many other warranty and non-warranty repairs before you are done.
And then this gem:
However your problem sounds very minor compared to the "bugs" that most people find and have repaired in their new RV. Look forward to more in the near future.
Great advice for a first timer. This was not a minor issue.
Clearly the leak was not small, and this is not an insignificant issue to anyone with a brand new RV. I would expect anyone - mechanical or not to get warranty issues fixed by the dealer, not do it themselves.

I didn't make any suggestions - just pointed out how lousy your response was.
thomasmnile
Explorer
Jul 01, 2013
tsetsaf wrote:

Not sure about the lemon laws in WA but in most states RVs are not covered. OP will need to work with the dealer in a cordial manner to get the issue righted.

Correct. If there is any coverage afforded to an RV by any state's lemon law, it does not apply to the living quarters, only the chassis and powertrain.