Max Tow F150s

Ron3rd wrote:

CWSWine wrote:
It is interesting how soft we have gotten over the last 150 years. Just a hundred years ago my great grand parents drove Model Ts over dirt roads and their parents came across the USA in covered wagons. Now the ride of 1-ton truck on paved road is unexceptable. As a nation WE sure have gotten soft.

...and most 1/2 ton owners don't tow anything. When my son bought his first house, he found out that having a truck is very handy, after frequently asking, "dad, can I borrow your truck?".

He lives down the street from Home Depot and does a lot of projects around the house. Not interested in towing. He ended up with a Tacoma which serves his purposes just fine.

I agree. We have considered buying a F150 EB for that very reason but we won’t be towing with it but will be towed behind our motor home. We could load side-by-side in the bed and bring it with us towed behind the motor home and not loose the living space of a toyhauler. I would really miss my Jeep Wrangler.

Still the first rating you probably hit with a Heavy Payload F150 is the hitch rating. My neighbors 2014 Heavy Payload hitch of 1140 if I remember right. Maybe someone would post a picture of the sticker on the hitch of Heavy Payload. When I towed TTS I liked my tongue weight at or over 13% so that will keep the TT less than 9000 pounds(9000 X 13% = 1170). Ford got the 11,000 plus rating using 10% tongue which I wouldn’t want tow with that low percentage. That rating is before you hook up the W/D. My 2015 Ford 1 ton had a 1250 pound hitch rating my 2016 GMC had 3 inch receiver rated like 1800 pounds.

bid_time wrote:

demiles wrote:
The statements I made are not opinions or guesses but are fully supported by the laws of physics. I don’t have time to go into all the details since I’m traveling right now but I’ll gladly do so later. Also keep in mind that it’s impossible to quantify the stability of a combo without considering the characteristics from both TV and trailer. Most understand how important trailer tongue weight % is to stability, the reason for that is it places the trailer COG at the correct location. Well for the TV there’s also an ideal COG location and the further the COG is forward from the rear axle while loaded the better the stability in both divergent and dynamic modes. When you extend wheelbase you shift the COG forward, a TV with 1,000lbs plus higher unladen weight on the front axle will carry its COG further forward as well increasing stability. I’ll touch on why MFG TWRs are overly optimistic for conventional TTs later.

So in other words "I got no answer so I dazzle you with my bull sheet".
Simple question - why is a F150 not capable of towing wihin its ratings?

Because getting into technology becomes a headache (for me and assume others) because it is so far over folks who just don't get it...like this comment shows

CWSWine wrote:
It is interesting how soft we have gotten over the last 150 years. Just a hundred years ago my great grand parents drove Model Ts over dirt roads and their parents came across the USA in covered wagons. Now the ride of 1-ton truck on paved road is unexceptable. As a nation WE sure have gotten soft.

Agree and thoughts are that our society coddles too much and not enough are harmed/killed (Darwinism) like they did back in the day

Toss in folks that don't understand the laws of physics providing: "sure you can...I've been doing it for years with no problems", etc, etc...advice here on these freebie forums to newbies who are on their learning curve(s)...

CWSWine wrote:
It is interesting how soft we have gotten over the last 150 years. Just a hundred years ago my great grand parents drove Model Ts over dirt roads and their parents came across the USA in covered wagons. Now the ride of 1-ton truck on paved road is unexceptable. As a nation WE sure have gotten soft.

...and most 1/2 ton owners don't tow anything. When my son bought his first house, he found out that having a truck is very handy, after frequently asking, "dad, can I borrow your truck?".

He lives down the street from Home Depot and does a lot of projects around the house. Not interested in towing. He ended up with a Tacoma which serves his purposes just fine.

It is interesting how soft we have gotten over the last 150 years. Just a hundred years ago my great grand parents drove Model Ts over dirt roads and their parents came across the USA in covered wagons. Now the ride of 1-ton truck on paved road is unexceptable. As a nation WE sure have gotten soft.

demiles wrote:
The statements I made are not opinions or guesses but are fully supported by the laws of physics. I don’t have time to go into all the details since I’m traveling right now but I’ll gladly do so later. Also keep in mind that it’s impossible to quantify the stability of a combo without considering the characteristics from both TV and trailer. Most understand how important trailer tongue weight % is to stability, the reason for that is it places the trailer COG at the correct location. Well for the TV there’s also an ideal COG location and the further the COG is forward from the rear axle while loaded the better the stability in both divergent and dynamic modes. When you extend wheelbase you shift the COG forward, a TV with 1,000lbs plus higher unladen weight on the front axle will carry its COG further forward as well increasing stability. I’ll touch on why MFG TWRs are overly optimistic for conventional TTs later.

So in other words "I got no answer so I dazzle you with my bull sheet".
Simple question - why is a F150 not capable of towing wihin its ratings?

demiles wrote:
The statements I made are not opinions or guesses but are fully supported by the laws of physics. I don’t have time to go into all the details since I’m traveling right now but I’ll gladly do so later. Also keep in mind that it’s impossible to quantify the stability of a combo without considering the characteristics from both TV and trailer. Most understand how important trailer tongue weight % is to stability, the reason for that is it places the trailer COG at the correct location. Well for the TV there’s also an ideal COG location and the further the COG is forward from the rear axle while loaded the better the stability in both divergent and dynamic modes. When you extend wheelbase you shift the COG forward, a TV with 1,000lbs plus higher unladen weight on the front axle will carry its COG further forward as well increasing stability. I’ll touch on why MFG TWRs are overly optimistic for conventional TTs later.

demiles,
And the 1 ton truck guys can make the same claim against your Nissan. Even the 3/4 ton truck guys with real 3/4 capacity can make the same claims.

Every truck is designed with specific goals. Some are comprimised and some meet the exact requirements. Ride quality and load carrying capacity is usually where people have to make a choice.

Towing with 1/2 ton within its design limits are fine and I have done with Chevy 1/2 ton and 6,000 TT and was a great experience.

I will say though that upgrading the tires to LT tires and adding heavier suspension and etc on lightweight 1/2 ton like the Heavy Payload Option does probably isn’t a great idea. My neighbor had a 2014 Heavy Payload option and road like a lumber wagon. He took my GMC 1-ton diesel out for the ride and couldn't believe that the ride was that much better the F150 Heavy Payload. Even his wife could see a noticeable difference between the ride of the F150 and 1-ton diesel and the on GMC 1 ton being much more civil. Shortly after that, he traded for Standard F150 since all he tows in utility trailers and Jet Skis. The standard F150 road a lot better than my GMC 1-ton but that is to be expected.

I took the tour of the F150 plant in Kansas City with our Chamber and I ask the question why they don't put the EB 3.5 in the Super Duties. He stated the EB engine was a great engine but it will not hold up to the demands put on the Super Duties trucks. He said contractors will max out the capacities of the truck on day one and expect it to handle that load day after day for 250,000 miles and the EB just isn't up to the task. He said for customers that we target for the F150 EB it will that only max it out on occasion it will last the life of the truck.

Again a properly matched/setup 1/2 ton and TT will do a great job but that limited your selection of RV to the light side. If you want to tow heavy get the proper tool.

FishOnOne wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

bikendan wrote:

Bobbo wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

Samsonsworld wrote:
I'd just look for tow mirrors and a high payload rating.

I believe that the tow mirrors are no longer included in the Max Tow Package.

They're not. They are a stand alone package that must be ordered separately.

Yep!

Another better idea from Ford?

Kind of like the flip mirrors are an option on your ram.

Fish is correct. When I was shopping for my Ram Cummins, not all on the lot had the flip out towing mirrors, something that was a deal breaker for me. I ended up with the power folding tow mirrors which are awesome. I'm sure Ford has the same thing

Lantley wrote:
Maury82 wrote:
The 2/3 trucks are designed to tow heavier loads than the 1/2 ton, and it weighs more. Because of of that, they have the suspension rated to handle it's added weight and towing capacity.

The F150 EB 3.5 HDPP, has less towing ratings than the same version of the 3/4 ton, and even with a less stout suspension, stops, accelerates, handles turns better than the heavier trucks, because it doesn't need as heavy suspension because of its lighter weight and towing ratings.

There are compromises, and while that 3/4 ton will be a bit more stout towing my trailer than the HDPP F150, especially in windy conditions, but that F150 will be stable...a trade-off.

I'm willing to trade-off that slight gain in stability for better engine and transmission combination that those gas 3/4 trucks are far inferior to the 3.5 EB when towing heavier loads, particularly up hills and when accelerating.

That 3.5 EB add further gains when not towing that the 3/4 ton gas or diesel engines that renders 3/4 ton trucks far inferior to many 1/2 owners...give a little, but gain a lot.

Give a little less towing stability, but gaining much more in every when towing and especially when not towing.

I think this all boils down to what Huntingdog said a few post Back.
THis is a tow vehicle forum. Most of our comments and knowledge is based on what a truck requires to be a good TV.
However many are basing there tow vehicle decision on non towing factors.
Does it fit in the garage? Is it too tall, Is the ride smooth enough for my wife? Does it have a 10 speed transmission? None of those factors enhances the trucks ability to tow yet many base there tow vehicle decision on those factors.
On a tow vehicle forum you are only going to get feedback on what it takes to tow. True towing fanatics know the characteristics of a good tow vehicle however they are not interested or knowledgable in the non towing qualities.
The real compromise begin with your mindset. One must decide how dedicated they are to having a tow vehicle vs. a multi purpose vehicle from the start.
As one get deeper into towing they realize that all the non towing factors become secondary. Having the right vehicle while towing is more important that having the right vehicle while running errands. It only takes one bad towing experience for one to understand that having a stout truck trumps all other factors.
The wrong vehicle while running errands maybe hard to park, however the wrong vehicle while towing may put you in harms way. If/when this happens your mindset changes in a hurry.

I agree with having the right tow vehicle, and I'd hate to be out on the road towing with the wrong, or a marginal tow vehicle for the job.

They make tow hitches for vehicles beside 2/3 and 1 ton vehicles, because there are towing needs that doesn't require those trucks. I have three Honda Accords with tow hitches, and tow a 6x8 utility trailer, and I have a cargo tray and a bike rack I often stick back there.

I have a Toro zero radius mower and push mower I use to cut the grass on my rental properties. I've had refrigerators, stove, dishwasher loaded, along with other items, and not once I said to myself, I wish I had a truck. Actually, when I pick up my truck,I don't plan to use it to replace my Honda and utility trailer for towing.

My point is there isn't a need for the absolutely maximum TV for towing needs that can be met safely and adequate with a lesser TV.

My contentious are, safe and adequate towing doesn't begins at a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

My mindset is on safe towing, and that's why a paid almost $3,000 for the HDPP, versus getting the sports trim, chrome package, or other trim that was less stout for towing heavy. Remember, the HDPP is specifically designed with a heavier duty frame, along with other engineering to enhance both towing and heavier payloads versus other F150s.

It's more than capable to tow my 9,900lbs, 37 ft long TT, and I'm well within ratings (11,700lbs tow, ~2,500lbs payload) with room to spare. If those same towing percentage were being applied to a 3/4 ton, or a 1 ton truck, you would give a thumbs up as a safe setup, but a thumbs down when those same towing percentage is applied to a 1/2 ton or smaller vehicle.


Remember, I think everyone is talking about towing within the ratings of the TV, but it seems that when it comes to towing with a 1/2 ton, towing over half its rating puts towing in the doom and gloom danger zone.


Remember, we also see how you guys ignore the low 2,000lbs payload of those 3/4 ton diesels towing over its rating.