Max Tow F150s

The statements I made are not opinions or guesses but are fully supported by the laws of physics. I don’t have time to go into all the details since I’m traveling right now but I’ll gladly do so later. Also keep in mind that it’s impossible to quantify the stability of a combo without considering the characteristics from both TV and trailer. Most understand how important trailer tongue weight % is to stability, the reason for that is it places the trailer COG at the correct location. Well for the TV there’s also an ideal COG location and the further the COG is forward from the rear axle while loaded the better the stability in both divergent and dynamic modes. When you extend wheelbase you shift the COG forward, a TV with 1,000lbs plus higher unladen weight on the front axle will carry its COG further forward as well increasing stability. I’ll touch on why MFG TWRs are overly optimistic for conventional TTs later.

Maury82 wrote:
The 2/3 trucks are designed to tow heavier loads than the 1/2 ton, and it weighs more. Because of of that, they have the suspension rated to handle it's added weight and towing capacity.

The F150 EB 3.5 HDPP, has less towing ratings than the same version of the 3/4 ton, and even with a less stout suspension, stops, accelerates, handles turns better than the heavier trucks, because it doesn't need as heavy suspension because of its lighter weight and towing ratings.

There are compromises, and while that 3/4 ton will be a bit more stout towing my trailer than the HDPP F150, especially in windy conditions, but that F150 will be stable...a trade-off.

I'm willing to trade-off that slight gain in stability for better engine and transmission combination that those gas 3/4 trucks are far inferior to the 3.5 EB when towing heavier loads, particularly up hills and when accelerating.

That 3.5 EB add further gains when not towing that the 3/4 ton gas or diesel engines that renders 3/4 ton trucks far inferior to many 1/2 owners...give a little, but gain a lot.

Give a little less towing stability, but gaining much more in every when towing and especially when not towing.

I think this all boils down to what Huntingdog said a few post Back.
THis is a tow vehicle forum. Most of our comments and knowledge is based on what a truck requires to be a good TV.
However many are basing there tow vehicle decision on non towing factors.
Does it fit in the garage? Is it too tall, Is the ride smooth enough for my wife? Does it have a 10 speed transmission? None of those factors enhances the trucks ability to tow yet many base there tow vehicle decision on those factors.
On a tow vehicle forum you are only going to get feedback on what it takes to tow. True towing fanatics know the characteristics of a good tow vehicle however they are not interested or knowledgable in the non towing qualities.
The real compromise begin with your mindset. One must decide how dedicated they are to having a tow vehicle vs. a multi purpose vehicle from the start.
As one get deeper into towing they realize that all the non towing factors become secondary. Having the right vehicle while towing is more important that having the right vehicle while running errands. It only takes one bad towing experience for one to understand that having a stout truck trumps all other factors.
The wrong vehicle while running errands maybe hard to park, however the wrong vehicle while towing may put you in harms way. If/when this happens your mindset changes in a hurry.

Maury82 wrote:

demiles wrote:
If you would check what characteristics make a TV more stable , payload rating is not one of them. The only place it helps is in the vertical plane which has little effect on sway stability. The single thing that improves stability the most is increasing TV unladen mass followed by increasing its wheelbase. The Ford HDPP 150s are still lightweights and towing with high tongue weights and high payload is a scary thing. There’s a very good reason why HDPP tow ratings are lower. So the 1/2 vs 3/4 ton argument is valid though many don’t understand why

I don't believe you have a clue how the HDPP trucks will handle it's towing rating's...I think you are speculating.

When it's comes to the newer 1/2 ton towing, especially the HDPP trucks, I don't trust the words of anyone who hasn't actually towed heavy with a newer HDPP truck, because I really don't think you have the slightest clue.

As a matter of fact, I'll tell you how it tows. I pick up my HDPP truck today, and once I finish breaking it in, I'll be the one to tell you how it tows. Unless you actually towed a heavy and long TT with a newer HD 1/2, you are only speculating, and are not in the position to tell others how it tows.

I have a 37ft, 8,300 dry TT, so once I break my truck in and get some towing miles on it, I'll let YOU know about towing a heavy and long TT with a 1/2 ton.

I'm going to either cancel or confirm all that doom and gloom, "too much for a 1/2 ton", "too long for a 1/2 ton", "I wouldn't go any heavier", rhetoric about what a 1/2 ton can and can't do.

The 2/3 trucks are designed to tow heavier loads than the 1/2 ton, and it weighs more. Because of of that, they have the suspension rated to handle it's added weight and towing capacity.

The F150 EB 3.5 HDPP, has less towing ratings than the same version of the 3/4 ton, and even with a less stout suspension, stops, accelerates, handles turns better than the heavier trucks, because it doesn't need as heavy suspension because of its lighter weight and towing ratings.

There are compromises, and while that 3/4 ton will be a bit more stout towing my trailer than the HDPP F150, especially in windy conditions, but that F150 will be stable...a trade-off.

I'm willing to trade-off that slight gain in stability for better engine and transmission combination that those gas 3/4 trucks are far inferior to the 3.5 EB when towing heavier loads, particularly up hills and when accelerating.

That 3.5 EB add further gains when not towing that the 3/4 ton gas or diesel engines that renders 3/4 ton trucks far inferior to many 1/2 owners...give a little, but gain a lot.

Give a little less towing stability, but gaining much more in every when towing and especially when not towing.

mooky stinks wrote:
Serious question: Why does almost every "1/2 ton question" thread have to turn into "just get a 3/4 ton" bullying session? Not everyone needs or wants one. But yet week after week threads get ruined because of the repeated bashing from a 3/4 owner/fan. OP is asking about a specific truck. Just like if it was a specific style of camper. Unless the OP is attempting something that is going to obviously put him/her in danger, why the constant attempt to "upsell" to what you think they should have?

I agree, not everyone needs a 3/4 ton. Everyone should be getting a 1 ton.:p

demiles wrote:
If you would check what characteristics make a TV more stable , payload rating is not one of them. The only place it helps is in the vertical plane which has little effect on sway stability. The single thing that improves stability the most is increasing TV unladen mass followed by increasing its wheelbase. The Ford HDPP 150s are still lightweights and towing with high tongue weights and high payload is a scary thing. There’s a very good reason why HDPP tow ratings are lower. So the 1/2 vs 3/4 ton argument is valid though many don’t understand why

I don't believe you have a clue how the HDPP trucks will handle it's towing rating's...I think you are speculating.

When it's comes to the newer 1/2 ton towing, especially the HDPP trucks, I don't trust the words of anyone who hasn't actually towed heavy with a newer HDPP truck, because I really don't think you have the slightest clue.

As a matter of fact, I'll tell you how it tows. I pick up my HDPP truck today, and once I finish breaking it in, I'll be the one to tell you how it tows. Unless you actually towed a heavy and long TT with a newer HD 1/2, you are only speculating, and are not in the position to tell others how it tows.

I have a 37ft, 8,300 dry TT, so once I break my truck in and get some towing miles on it, I'll let YOU know about towing a heavy and long TT with a 1/2 ton.

I'm going to either cancel or confirm all that doom and gloom, "too much for a 1/2 ton", "too long for a 1/2 ton", "I wouldn't go any heavier", rhetoric about what a 1/2 ton can and can't do.

demiles wrote:
If you would check what characteristics make a TV more stable , payload rating is not one of them. The only place it helps is in the vertical plane which has little effect on sway stability. The single thing that improves stability the most is increasing TV unladen mass followed by increasing its wheelbase. The Ford HDPP 150s are still lightweights and towing with high tongue weights and high payload is a scary thing. There’s a very good reason why HDPP tow ratings are lower. So the 1/2 vs 3/4 ton argument is valid though many don’t understand why

So please educate me.

Explain to me why the manufacturer puts ratings on a truck but apparently that truck (with the 1/2 ton badge on the side) can't handle a trailer within those ratings.

And when you start with the "more capable" please tell me why you're not towing with a class 8 truck.

The fact is, the badge on the side means nothing. If you are towing within the vehicle ratings you're good to go.

And I'll remind you that short wheelbase trucks weighing less than 20K lbs are towing 55 foot trailers with 60K lbs loads millions of miles.

But we can keep it simple. Just tell me why a 1/2 ton truck is not suitable to tow within its ratings (why "the argument" is valid).

If you would check what characteristics make a TV more stable , payload rating is not one of them. The only place it helps is in the vertical plane which has little effect on sway stability. The single thing that improves stability the most is increasing TV unladen mass followed by increasing its wheelbase. The Ford HDPP 150s are still lightweights and towing with high tongue weights and high payload is a scary thing. There’s a very good reason why HDPP tow ratings are lower. So the 1/2 vs 3/4 ton argument is valid though many don’t understand why

Lynnmor wrote:

bid_time wrote:
That's were you're wrong. Most everyone here uses their truck 85% of the time going back and forth to work, 15% of the time towing a trailer. Good news though, there are forums for elitist, smart ass know it alls.

It needs to be capable and safe for that 15%, but that is just my ESAKIA opinion.

I agree 100%, and the extra payload and upgrades render the HDPP that safe and capable truck for heavyy duty towing requiring added payload, and that seems ideally for longer and heavier trailers within its rating.

Huntindog wrote:

mooky stinks wrote:
Serious question: Why does almost every "1/2 ton question" thread have to turn into "just get a 3/4 ton" bullying session? Not everyone needs or wants one. But yet week after week threads get ruined because of the repeated bashing from a 3/4 owner/fan. OP is asking about a specific truck. Just like if it was a specific style of camper. Unless the OP is attempting something that is going to obviously put him/her in danger, why the constant attempt to "upsell" to what you think they should have?

I am not a 3/4 ton proponent at all. I tow with a 1 ton dually crewcab diesel..

But as for the whys.... Just crawl underneath the trucks and see for yourself.




And still..... This is a towing forum.... Major interest is in how well trucks perform that task.... Lots of other forums to discuss grocery getter tasks...

I tow a LOT. There have been a few times I have been really glad I have more truck than many seem to think I need....

The thing is, it is like seatbelts.... You only need them for an instant... In that instant, you either have the capability, or you don't.

Again, OP is not asking WHAT he should buy. He's asking a specific question about a specific truck and he ends up being lectured about why he should get something he's obviously not interested in. Nice snarky reply BTW. I didn't realize threads about 1/2 ton "grocery getters" had to be ok'd by you.

mooky stinks wrote:
Serious question: Why does almost every "1/2 ton question" thread have to turn into "just get a 3/4 ton" bullying session? Not everyone needs or wants one. But yet week after week threads get ruined because of the repeated bashing from a 3/4 owner/fan. OP is asking about a specific truck. Just like if it was a specific style of camper. Unless the OP is attempting something that is going to obviously put him/her in danger, why the constant attempt to "upsell" to what you think they should have?

Simple answer, if I like my truck and you don’t drive the same truck as mine you’re a fool. If I don’t like my truck and you drive the same truck as mine you’re a fool!