New HD Truck - Atlis

Groover wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

Will the power fairy just sprinkle pixie dust on the services to allow for the increased loads? The concerns aren't about the one guy who tows a Tesla behind his Prevost, it is should EVs become ubiquitous, how the heck are they going to be charged. I agree, if I wanted to allow it, my parks could easily handle charging one electric vehicle overnight. The problem arises when that one vehicle becomes 30 or 40, when it isn't just topping off the battery, it's recharging a couple dozen of these Atlis trucks (this thread) from nearly discharged to full capacity so they can go 500 more miles tomorrow. It isn't about using a 120 volt charger that adds 5 miles of range an hour, it's about how do you supply 480 volt, or even 1000 volt services to each site if the answer to the recharging question is charge at your destination because that is what is going to be needed to recharge the type of vehicles used in RVing. In my opinion, EVs will only capture the major transportation market when and if charging becomes similar to refueling an internal combustion vehicle in both time and convenience.

I don't think that anyone here is expecting you to do it for free. However, I do suspect that you charge extra for sites with 50amp service. I think that it would be prudent of you to expect power demands to increase in the future and to consider that when doing any work on your grid and be prepared to charge appropriately for extra power provided. As for charging vehicles, if I were in your place a I would consider putting in a few EV charge stations near the main office in the future.

Nope, don't charge extra for 50 amp. In the real world of RV park ownership there actually is negligible difference in the daily cost of having a fully electric RV in a 50 amp site and a pop up camper in a 30 amp site. What the big class A uses in electricity cost, the popup makes up by using the park's showers and restrooms. Heck, on a hot day, the Popup very easily uses more electricity running a rooftop air trying to cool the canvas walled RV than the big 45 footer uses cooling the much better insulated rig.
There is much more to charging EVs in volume than just having a charging station. Real estate has to be dedicated to the charging station(s). Allowances have to be made for what to do with the drivers and passengers as they wait for the vehicle to charge. Even the massive Megachargers being discussed (yet not available, so they are just theory at this point) apparently take 20 minutes plus to completely charge a vehicle. That would mean if three vehicles are in line (common in modern gas stations), the business would have to accommodate the passengers and drivers for 1 hour. A well run RV park would not allow random people to roam the park for an hour, so there would need to be some other solution.
Fueling internal combustion vehicles is not very profitable. That is why most have convenience stores, or less frequently, repair shops attached. There is no reason to assume that fueling EVs would be wildly profitable either. I doubt anyone has not noticed that fuel stations take large amounts of staffing and need to be open long hours (often 24/7) and don't close seasonally. All of those run against my business plans. Other than the fact that both RVs and EVs need to plug in, there really is no overlap between the businesses.

Groover wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

Will the power fairy just sprinkle pixie dust on the services to allow for the increased loads? The concerns aren't about the one guy who tows a Tesla behind his Prevost, it is should EVs become ubiquitous, how the heck are they going to be charged. I agree, if I wanted to allow it, my parks could easily handle charging one electric vehicle overnight. The problem arises when that one vehicle becomes 30 or 40, when it isn't just topping off the battery, it's recharging a couple dozen of these Atlis trucks (this thread) from nearly discharged to full capacity so they can go 500 more miles tomorrow. It isn't about using a 120 volt charger that adds 5 miles of range an hour, it's about how do you supply 480 volt, or even 1000 volt services to each site if the answer to the recharging question is charge at your destination because that is what is going to be needed to recharge the type of vehicles used in RVing. In my opinion, EVs will only capture the major transportation market when and if charging becomes similar to refueling an internal combustion vehicle in both time and convenience.

I don't think that anyone here is expecting you to do it for free. However, I do suspect that you charge extra for sites with 50amp service. I think that it would be prudent of you to expect power demands to increase in the future and to consider that when doing any work on your grid and be prepared to charge appropriately for extra power provided. As for charging vehicles, if I were in your place a I would consider putting in a few EV charge stations near the main office in the future.

All EV's come with EVSE's that plug directly into a 14-50 240 volt stove/RV plug and usually come with adapters that adapt to dryer or even 120 amp receptacles. The campgrounds don't have to invest anything initially. Most EV's draw max 32 amps thru their furnished portable EVSE's.

Unless there is some other draw to the campground (restaurant, etc) it wouldn't make much business sense to add a DC fast charger as they can cost north of 100 grand and require three phase power.

Chainwright wrote:

ksss wrote:
I don't think anyone is against an EV pickup. The claims of this one are off the chart though. Time will tell, if they can backup their insane claims. I would think that if this technology existed, we would know that by now.

No "We" wouldn't, not unless you're a Popular mechanic subscriber or you do your own digging. I learned a ALOT of "stuff" in Afghanistan, that the Gov't tries to "Shield" Stop looking at the glass half Empty.

It is not a question of looking at the glass half full, it is looking at the concept with logic and not your heart. If you believe that this is viable right now and your willing to bet YOUR money that this of level technology exists and is just being kept secret, I am sure ATLIS would be happy to take your investment money. Especially seeing how they don't appear to even have office space right now to say nothing of manufacturing capability. Like I said, I am interested to see where all this goes, time will tell. Talk and hope is cheap, making it happen is not.

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

Will the power fairy just sprinkle pixie dust on the services to allow for the increased loads? The concerns aren't about the one guy who tows a Tesla behind his Prevost, it is should EVs become ubiquitous, how the heck are they going to be charged. I agree, if I wanted to allow it, my parks could easily handle charging one electric vehicle overnight. The problem arises when that one vehicle becomes 30 or 40, when it isn't just topping off the battery, it's recharging a couple dozen of these Atlis trucks (this thread) from nearly discharged to full capacity so they can go 500 more miles tomorrow. It isn't about using a 120 volt charger that adds 5 miles of range an hour, it's about how do you supply 480 volt, or even 1000 volt services to each site if the answer to the recharging question is charge at your destination because that is what is going to be needed to recharge the type of vehicles used in RVing. In my opinion, EVs will only capture the major transportation market when and if charging becomes similar to refueling an internal combustion vehicle in both time and convenience.

I don't think that anyone here is expecting you to do it for free. However, I do suspect that you charge extra for sites with 50amp service. I think that it would be prudent of you to expect power demands to increase in the future and to consider that when doing any work on your grid and be prepared to charge appropriately for extra power provided. As for charging vehicles, if I were in your place a I would consider putting in a few EV charge stations near the main office in the future.

Reisender wrote:
Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

Will the power fairy just sprinkle pixie dust on the services to allow for the increased loads? The concerns aren't about the one guy who tows a Tesla behind his Prevost, it is should EVs become ubiquitous, how the heck are they going to be charged. I agree, if I wanted to allow it, my parks could easily handle charging one electric vehicle overnight. The problem arises when that one vehicle becomes 30 or 40, when it isn't just topping off the battery, it's recharging a couple dozen of these Atlis trucks (this thread) from nearly discharged to full capacity so they can go 500 more miles tomorrow. It isn't about using a 120 volt charger that adds 5 miles of range an hour, it's about how do you supply 480 volt, or even 1000 volt services to each site if the answer to the recharging question is charge at your destination because that is what is going to be needed to recharge the type of vehicles used in RVing. In my opinion, EVs will only capture the major transportation market when and if charging becomes similar to refueling an internal combustion vehicle in both time and convenience.

westernrvparkowner wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
I remember when 30amps at 120v for 3600watts was a big thing at campgrounds. Now 50amps at 240v for 12,000watts is getting fairly common.
.............................................

RV/CG 50 amp is 120V not 240. It's just two 30 amp 120 circuits.

100 percent incorrect. Proper 50 amp service is accurately described as 50 amp,240 volt. It has the potential to deliver 12,000 watts.

My motorhome has 30amp breakers internally on each leg and I don't doubt that many others do also but the breaker box has 50amp breakers. That is why most of your power cords are made with 6 gauge wire. I have heard rumors that some campgrounds did not upgrade their wiring when putting in the new plugs so you may have encountered lower service in the field but that is not the way it is supposed to be. Fortunately, I have not yet encountered that problem but there is a reason why so many people put voltage protection devices on their campers.

time2roll wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Didn't know you were an expert on RV park power systems. Please explain to me how our electrical system can just add the loads associated with charging EVs without the need to upgrade the system?

When you are 2/3rds empty and I want to pull 20 or 30 amps out of your 50 amp outlet I think you will take my $50 site fee. So charge an extra $30 ($50?) for the 150 kWh fill up.

Can I use your laundry at $5.00 a load too or will that melt your transformer?

No, I won't be allowing you to recharge your vehicles if I am empty, 2/3rds empty or full. It isn't a business I am interested in having or an amenity I am willing to provide. I don't allow the public to use my laundry either.
What I find amusing is on one hand you seem to think EVs are the future, yet on the other hand you believe that one off recharging locations will be the answer to the biggest barrier to widespread adaptation. Scaling a business requires major changes and the recharging infrastructure is going to be the single biggest barrier to EVs.
With the very insignificant numbers of EVs today, the electrical grid can handle the loads. It is very questionable if that would remain true should the percentage of EVs on the road rise from less than 1 percent to something approaching 50 percent. You can get by with the inconveniences of recharging, because the early adopters knowingly accept those issues. A current owner of an EV can probably cobble their way across the country using the existing infrastructure, but they surely won't have options for refueling that the Internal combustion engine crowd has. Using your example and limiting your travel to times the RV parks aren't busy, yet are physically open, is going to severely impact travel opportunities. There are major issues that need to be overcome before EVs take over the highways and byways. Charging at an RV park isn't going to be the linchpin that solves those issues.

Chainwright wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

NJRVer wrote:
How many gas stations were there in the country in 1920? That's about the equivalent of where EV's are now.

Yeah, but how many cars and people were in the country in 1920? I don't think the comparison works very well.

can you explain WHY his comparison doesn't works very well? (i'm guessing he's talking %, but I could be wrong)

Where does he get his numbers? Whipping some comparisons out of thin air doesn't mean much. Put out the relevant numbers and then I might reconsider. And don't forget, one of the main draws of EV is that they supposedly can be charged anywhere there's electricity.

Campgrounds won’t be required to upgrade their services to provide for EV charging. No more than hotels are required to have EV charging for overnight stays. Of course, we won’t stay at a hotel if they don’t have destination overnight charging. It’s up to them if they want my business.

agesilaus wrote:
I remember when 30amps at 120v for 3600watts was a big thing at campgrounds. Now 50amps at 240v for 12,000watts is getting fairly common.
.............................................

RV/CG 50 amp is 120V not 240. It's just two 30 amp 120 circuits.

100 percent incorrect. Proper 50 amp service is accurately described as 50 amp,240 volt. It has the potential to deliver 12,000 watts.