Hi all, I am new to this forum and new to travel trailer camping. We have "the bug" and are looking at small Jayco or Rockwood. We haven't bought the trailer, nor do we yet have a tow vehicle. However, we were intending to get an SUV even before the TT bug hit, so we've been shopping. I expect to buy either a Toyota 4Runner 4WD or a Nissan Pathfinder 4WD, each supposedly rated to tow 5,000 pounds. I don't want to drive anything larger than one of these, so if one of these won't handle the trailer we want, then I'll get a smaller TT than we were hoping for.Our favored TTs are (using each one's own terminology):Jayco Jay Flight 19RD: Unloaded Vehicle Weight 3715 Dry Hitch Weight 435 Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 6000 Cargo Carrying Capacity 2285Rockwood 2104S: Base/Dry Unit Weight 3865 Base Dry Hitch Weight 468 Base Dry Axle Weight 3397 Cargo Capacity 943=====The Tow Vehicle Specs (though I don't think these account for features we would add):Toyota 4Runner: GVWR 6300 Curb Weight 4675 Towing Capacity 4700 (sometimes shown as 5000)Nissan Pathfinder: GVWR 5986 Curb Weight 4168 Towing Capacity 5000 Max tongue wt (Dead wt hitch) 500 Max tougue wt (Wt distrib hitch) 750Dodge Durango Limited 6cyl AWD: GVWR 6500 Curb Weight 4838 Payload Capacity 1330 Towing Capacity 6200Dodge Durango Limited 8cyl AWD: GVWR 7100 Curb Weight 5133 Payload Capacity 1340 Towing Capacity 7400Will any choice of SUV work for pulling these, or is one better than the others? Or do I simply need to settle for a smaller TT?Thanks for your assistance and patience ... I've seen other posts of similar nature, but this is all quite overwhelming to me and I really want to make the best decision I can.Craig

Good move, asking questions before you buy something. I’m not that familiar with either the Nissan or the Toyota and will let people who are answer that, but I will say this. Dry weights typically wind up understated. Tow ratings are a relatively useless number. The payload of your TV is what you need to know, you’ll run out of that well before you get near the tow rating. Your available payload is your TV GVWR less its weight as equipped and EVERYTHING you put in it plus the wd hitch. Your real tongue weight will be about 13% of the loaded weight of the TT. So a 6000# TT could have a tw approaching 800#. Also if you tow near your max and spend much time in the mountains you likely won’t enjoy the experience, so you need some slack. I think 6000# loaded would be a handful for either vehicle, but as said, I defer to those who know the vehicle specs better than I.Last thought, do not believe anything a salesman tells you about what you can pull. His job is to sell TT's, not look out for your interests.

rfryer wrote:Good move, asking questions before you buy something. I’m not that familiar with either the Nissan or the Toyota and will let people who are answer that, but I will say this. Dry weights typically wind up understated. Tow ratings are a relatively useless number. The payload of your TV is what you need to know, you’ll run out of that well before you get near the tow rating. Your available payload is your TV GVWR less its weight as equipped and EVERYTHING you put in it plus the wd hitch. Your real tongue weight will be about 13% of the loaded weight of the TT. So a 6000# TT could have a tw approaching 800#. Also if you tow near your max and spend much time in the mountains you likely won’t enjoy the experience, so you need some slack. I think 6000# loaded would be a handful for either vehicle, but as said, I defer to those who know the vehicle specs better than I.Last thought, do not believe anything a salesman tells you about what you can pull. His job is to sell TT's, not look out for your interests.After reading the OP I was going to write a reply and then realized this pretty much sums it up. Great info here. To the OP - Basically, don't listen to salesmen or commercials about a vehicle being able to tow 10,000#. It's totally overstated and under ideal conditions. As in, an empty vehicle with only a driver and a tank of fuel. Congrats on getting into RVing. Without a doubt it's the best bang for the buck you will find in getting out to enjoy your area and well beyond. There is a wealth of information on this board so poke around, absorb and ask questions.

Not commenting on the tow vehicle but, if your numbers are correct, I would rule out the Rockwood due to the very limited cargo capacity.Best of luck with your decision.

I tow my camper with a Nissan Frontier, that is rated to tow 6000 pounds. My camper weighs 4000 pounds ready to camp. Factory listed dry weight was 3070 pounds.This is a good match. My feelings are that a trailer heavier than this would be, shall we say less than optimum. Based on this, I think you're looking at too heavy trailers for the tow vehicles you are considering, especially if you are "a bit timid to tow".

"Base dry weight" can be very misleading. Add a few options, and the weight will climb 500# easily. Now also remember that no one tows an empty RV around, it will forever have your stuff in it, so add another 500# minimum. So, what I'm saying is you can conservatively add 1000# to the extra light advertised weights and still likely be low for "real world" weight when loaded for a trip. Another thing to keep in mind is the car manufacturers play the same numbers game. The "max tow rating" often assumes only one 150# driver, and no other passengers or cargo, which take away from that rating. Example - tow rating of 5000#, but add mom and the kids plus some cargo in the vehicle and you now have a 4500# tow rating.Both of those RVs you are looking at are likely too big/heavy for those 5000# tow rating vehicles.

New to TT, Bit timid to tow ...? | Good Sam Community

CraigJConrad
Explorer
Jul 07, 2014
mcsyrveyor: Thank you, thank you!! I've spent my whole morning (literally hours) trying to find information on the 'net and awaiting a call back from my salesman to figure out if I'd made a mistake. In my reading, I came to suspect that the extra gears *might* make up for the drop on the axle ratio, but I couldn't find anything definitive. In fact, if I've read correctly, the V8s on the prior models all had the 3.45, but those models had fewer gears. Your post has confirmed my speculation and put my fears to rest. Thanks!
mcsurveyor
Explorer
Jul 07, 2014
CraigJConrad wrote:
Hi GMW ... What, then, do you suggest? I can have the V8 with 3.09 or the V6 with 3.45. I haven't yet seen a way to get the V8 with 3.45, though I intend to contact the dealer to see if that is even possible. If it *is* possible, then I assume that would drop my MPG by about 10% ... not excited about that possibility, either.

For the TT we have in mind (the heaviest being right at 4300 pounds with full LP and fresh water tanks before loading our stuff), which is better -- V6 3.45 or V8 3.09?

Don't sweat it too much. You probably don't even have the option of choosing the axle ratio. That said, you want the V8. Also, axle ratio is becoming almost meaningless with the new 8 speed transmission. The first gear ratio is so low the 3.09 axle ratio won't matter. If you were buying a vehicle with an older 4-speed auto, I'd say you have an issue. First gear ratio on the 8-speed is something like 4.69 and first on most 4-speeds is around 2.45, so the 8-speed with a 3.09 axle is like having a 4-speed with a 5.91 axle.

You're just fine.
gmw_photos
Explorer
Jul 07, 2014
CraigJConrad wrote:
Hi GMW ... What, then, do you suggest? I can have the V8 with 3.09 or the V6 with 3.45. I haven't yet seen a way to get the V8 with 3.45, though I intend to contact the dealer to see if that is even possible. If it *is* possible, then I assume that would drop my MPG by about 10% ... not excited about that possibility, either.

For the TT we have in mind (the heaviest being right at 4300 pounds with full LP and fresh water tanks before loading our stuff), which is better -- V6 3.45 or V8 3.09?

My "opinion" is this: when I am choosing a vehicle I am using for towing, I like good towing performance, and if I have to give a bit of gas mileage in my non-towing miles, so be it. So I like "lower" gearing ( higher number ) For instance, our Frontier ( V6, six speed manual ) has 3.69 gears. Our F350 diesel dually has 4.10 gears.
Now then, as I said, I don't buy "for best gas mileage". I want torque at the wheels when I am towing, and the way we get that is with lower gearing.

As to the Jeep, I am a poor person to ask, because I am just not a mopar person. So I'm gonna go way out on a limb here, and probably get flamed, as in burned to a crisp, but here goes anyway: I am not a fan of the pentastar V6. If I were in your shoes, I would choose the hemi V8, hands down. Having said that, again, you need to consider my comments re gas mileage....it just does not matter much to me compared to good towing performance.

You may be right though, you might not have any options in gear ratios with the V8. It's probably fairly common for them to spec a given ratio with each engine/transmission combo. These aren't trucks, where you commonly have more options in gearing.

It's a little hard for me to give really constructive comments though in this case in a overall sense, because a vehicle like that would not be my choice of tow vehicle for a camper that is likely going to be 5000 pounds ready to leave the driveway. But, I reckon that is a different discussion for a different day.
Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful and positive on the whole deal.
Maybe some of the mopar faithful/experienced will weigh in here.
CraigJConrad
Explorer
Jul 07, 2014
Hi GMW ... What, then, do you suggest? I can have the V8 with 3.09 or the V6 with 3.45. I haven't yet seen a way to get the V8 with 3.45, though I intend to contact the dealer to see if that is even possible. If it *is* possible, then I assume that would drop my MPG by about 10% ... not excited about that possibility, either.

For the TT we have in mind (the heaviest being right at 4300 pounds with full LP and fresh water tanks before loading our stuff), which is better -- V6 3.45 or V8 3.09?
gmw_photos
Explorer
Jul 07, 2014
CraigJConrad wrote:
ARGHH! Just when I thought this was all settled, the question of rear axle ratio raised its head. My purchase order doesn't identify the rear axle ratio, but the Dodge web site notes that it comes in two different ratios. So, after digging further, I find that the V6 standard model comes with the 3.45 ratio, but upgrading to the V8 Hemi changes it to 3.09 as the group contains:
--5.7-Liter V8 HEMI® MDS VVT Engine
--220-Amp Alternator
--230MM Rear Axle
--2-Speed On-Demand Transfer Case
--3.09 Rear Axle Ratio
--GVW Rating - 7,100 Pounds
--Heavy Duty Engine Cooling

So, if I understand correctly, the 3.45 is better for towing, so that would suggest I should have stayed with the V6. But the V8 is better for towing (power and weight ratings), so I should stay with the V8!!

I can still change my order for this car until Wednesday. What should I do??

Anxious all over again .... Craig

I don't think the suggestion of getting 3.45 gears implies staying with the V6 engine at all.
Hemi V8, 3.45 gears. For that matter, I personally would go lower gears than that if I could, but if 3.45 is the lowest you can get, then it is what it is. At least the trans has a whole bunch of gears...so that's good.
CraigJConrad
Explorer
Jul 06, 2014
ARGHH! Just when I thought this was all settled, the question of rear axle ratio raised its head. My purchase order doesn't identify the rear axle ratio, but the Dodge web site notes that it comes in two different ratios. So, after digging further, I find that the V6 standard model comes with the 3.45 ratio, but upgrading to the V8 Hemi changes it to 3.09 as the group contains:
--5.7-Liter V8 HEMI® MDS VVT Engine
--220-Amp Alternator
--230MM Rear Axle
--2-Speed On-Demand Transfer Case
--3.09 Rear Axle Ratio
--GVW Rating - 7,100 Pounds
--Heavy Duty Engine Cooling

So, if I understand correctly, the 3.45 is better for towing, so that would suggest I should have stayed with the V6. But the V8 is better for towing (power and weight ratings), so I should stay with the V8!!

I can still change my order for this car until Wednesday. What should I do??

Anxious all over again .... Craig
ParkCountry
Explorer
Jul 06, 2014
Heck yeah, it matters! Do NOT, under any circumstances, order the 3.09 ratio. Get the 3.45 or you will be sorry when you try towing that trailer. Trust me on this one. This is not to say that the 3.45 will be good. I'm saying this with regard to Relative Terms, given the choice of the 2 ratios, 3.45 will be better.
CraigJConrad
Explorer
Jul 06, 2014
ANOTHER QUESTION: Sorry to bother everyone again, but I have to ask about the rear axle ratio. On the Dodge site, it says that the Durango I ordered can come with either a 3.09 or 3.45 rear axle ratio. The dealer didn't ask which I wanted and I don't know if one costs more, but for my intended purposes, does it matter?

THANKS!!!! ... Craig
2KGeorgieBoy
Explorer
Jul 06, 2014
You're doing this the best way by asking questions and trying to match the TV with a TT before you buy, not after. Reminds me of the scene in the "Long, long trailer" where Nicki and Tacy find out right after they sign on the dotted line for their new TT, that they now have to buy a new TV in order to pull it and also buy a new hitch and other amenities.
CraigJConrad
Explorer
Jul 06, 2014
Well, we bought a vehicle (2014 Dodge Durango Limited AWD V8). I *did* look at even more candidates than originally on my list, but given that we wanted 3rd row seating, 4x4 (preferred) or at least AWD, towing capability and Navigation package (hey, I get lost easily!) without getting a *HUGE* gas guzzler vehicle, it was tough to find options. So, we had generally settled on a Dodge Durango. And, at advice given in this forum, we did look at some used Durangos, but found that if it was gently used (e.g. 2 or 3 years old with <= 60K miles), then it didn't have everything we wanted and yet was within 10K of a brand new one equipped exactly as we wanted it, so new it was!

Went to a dealer with whom we had an inside connection and they gave us "dealer invoice" plus a $599 "dealer fee". I then went to Truecar.com and configured exactly what we wanted at that time and was sent an offer that was $1100 lower than what the "insider deal" had been! So, we went to that dealer today and, on other advice in this forum, asked how much it would be to upgrade it to a hemi V-8 engine. As that only added $1700 to the "out the door" price, we bought it. The vehicle is actually being "made to order", so won't be here for nearly 8 weeks, but we're in no hurry.

To be honest, I didn't re-do all of the numbers to confirm whether it would tow the TT's of interest, but if this huge thing won't do it, then we either get a smaller TT or forget the whole thing!

I am truly grateful to everyone for their help in this grueling and anxious process. It will now probably be a few months before I can afford to look at TT's again, but at least we'll have the vehicle ready ....

Craig

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