New TV purchased; seeking engine advice

Starting this to clear some internet clutter from many hours of research; I need to have a more clear focus for my budget, which will be about $4k all in for the motor. I really wanted a 6.6, but the engine alone is out of my range, and that's not counting potential future repair costs.

Just picked up a 99 Suburban C2500 about a week ago for dirt cheap (under $2k) with less than 200,000. Body is decent (needs paint) but is rust free and straight. Is has the L31 350, 4L80, 9.5 LS 14 Bolt with 4.10 gears and HD tow package. I could have gotten a V10 02 Excursion for about 1/3 more, but the guy sold it 2 days after I drove it, then I saw the Burb.

Year round road trip is still in the works, and we plan on paying cash for a TT that needs a bit of work. This will be temporary, eventually upgrading when the kids leave the nest. Considering the capacity of my rig, we'll be looking at under 30' and 7k gross, and there are tons of options in that range. Once the trans is rebuilt, and a few wear and tear items are addressed, this combo should pull fine for a few more years.

However, we want to upgrade to something with more heft, such as a Flagstaff V-Lite 30WRLIKS, just under 9k gross, and will need to upgrade the power plant to something with more beans if it's going to survive being worked FT. The base vehicle is there, and have no plans on replacing it.

So far I have quite a few options, and each would fit my needs: 6.0, 6.5, 454, HT383E, 8.1 or rebuild mine as a 355. I can find any of these second hand for relatively cheap money (maybe not the 8.1; I haven't searched yet). However, my biggest concerns are longevity, ease of repair and long term costs. Unloaded fuel economy falls in there somewhere, but not as important. We will be on a fixed income. I can wrench, and swap info is all over the net. If any more info helps, we plan on pulling just enough to get somewhere and stay for a spell.

Each engine has been out long enough that tons of info is available for any repairs or upgrades. Out of all of my options, and for my budget, help me narrow my options.

And before anyone asks the inevitable non-topic questions:
Yes, we will be buying a good quality WD hitch
Yes, we will be adding bags or Timbrens if needed
Yes, we may add a rear sway bar if needed
Yes, brakes will be upgraded
Yes, trans will be rebuilt or replaced with heavier duty version
Yes, yes, yes...

Tow Vehicles

43 Replies

norfla71
Explorer
Feb 21, 2016
Finished the steering assembly. Still a bit of slop (thinking the tie rods are now showing their wear) and it definitely needs an alignment; going old school with some string to get it in the ballpark. Parts only cost about $100, but that's a big part of my budget gone, so I need to save cash anywhere I can.

After installing new parts you can really feel how worn most of the stuff is. And it was warm enough today to know my AC system needs attention; no way I'm driving the beast during the summer until it's fixed.
norfla71
Explorer
Feb 21, 2016
blt2ski wrote:
The only.parts used is 1st and 2nd gear. The rest is 4l80/85e part as normal. Iirc I saw.an.article in 4wheeler on how to do this. Another popular swap is in a nv4500, but remove 1-3 from an early GM into the later GM and dodge setups. That is a 1st with a 6.4 vs a 5.65 or there about. Leave 4 and 5 alone.

Marty

I've been looking at rebuild videos for the last couple of days. Other than simple details like which way to install the seals and the possibility of tearing the pistons (what a PITA to get those seated) it seems pretty straight forward. Considering whether I want to install a shift kit and Red Eagles. At any rate it's getting pulled this spring and torn apart.
norfla71
Explorer
Feb 21, 2016
DaveF-250SD wrote:
I would keep it gas to keep maintenance costs low. When overhauling the 350, upgrade it to 383 c.i.. If it was mine, I would swap to a 454. The extra 80 horsepower and 110-ish ft. lbs. of torque increase will make a world of difference. I love my '77 C-20 454 pickup. Good luck with the Suburban.

I think the 454 idea is shelved; expensive to build and are gas hogs loaded or not. If I could figure a way to get the same mileage as the 350 when unloaded I might reconsider.

While pulling the steering apart I inspected the bottom of the block; other than being coated from a bad steering pump leak, it's clear of oil and coolant stains. It actually looks really good under there. Considering how good it runs I'm hoping it will hold together long enough to get funds set aside; I'm beginning to like the 383 idea the more I read about it. If I go that route new heads and intake are also on the list.
Grit_dog
Navigator II
Feb 20, 2016
norfla71 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Well there goes $3k for the trans after you try to home brew a rebuild......
Sounds like a bargain......
And all this because you got one lemon Dodge?
For the 100s of hours and 1000s of dollars you'll have into the rolling stink mobile (your words, I didn't know the interior was trashed also), you could take all your budget, find a serviceable vehicle and take a side job during the months you'll spend on the burb. With the extra income you'll come out with a free truck in the end!

Grit,

I see you own a Dodge. Do one previous Dodge owner a favor (actually owned 2 3rd gen HDs) and take the rhetoric over to the Cummins Forum where it belongs. It's clear you don't agree with my intentions. I respect the fact that your opinion and mine differ, but I am doing this regardless. If you truly have no helpful inputs regarding my original question than please consider this an invitation to not reply in my thread anymore. Otherwise, please respect the fact this is my project, and berating it won't have add any positive value.

The comment about "time spent on the burb"; I work up to 60 hours per week and consider working on her a distracting hobby. To paraphrase blt2ski it's about the end result, and the pride in doing it myself, not the amount of cash it takes to get there. At least I know enough about boats to steer clear of them; cheap to buy, nothing remotely close to being cheap to fix and maintain, which is why I took this over an 04 25 foot center console we were looking at last year. I may not put the same cash into her as what you can spend on a decent outboard alone.

As for you "1 lemon Dodge" comment my family, starting with my grandfather, has owned Mopars since the 1950s. I have owned 3 Dodge trucks and 2 Caravans, dad owned 3 trucks, cousins have about a dozen between them. Essentially, there have been dozens of Dodges in my family at any one time over the years; about half have been lemons (my 6.7, dads 4.7 1500, in-laws 4.7 Durango, cousins 3.9 Dakota, etc). I could have gotten a deal on a Hemi Durango, but it was worse than the Burb.

I'd say buy a Chevy, but you already did....
I understand the labor of love thing and wish I had the time to do more of it.
I didn't realize there was a personal connection to this project, figured you were looking for the most practical solution (economical).
Now that I know the rest of the story, have fun, builder how you want!
blt2ski
Moderator
Feb 20, 2016
The only.parts used is 1st and 2nd gear. The rest is 4l80/85e part as normal. Iirc I saw.an.article in 4wheeler on how to do this. Another popular swap is in a nv4500, but remove 1-3 from an early GM into the later GM and dodge setups. That is a 1st with a 6.4 vs a 5.65 or there about. Leave 4 and 5 alone.

Marty
DaveF-250SD
Explorer
Feb 20, 2016
I would keep it gas to keep maintenance costs low. When overhauling the 350, upgrade it to 383 c.i.. If it was mine, I would swap to a 454. The extra 80 horsepower and 110-ish ft. lbs. of torque increase will make a world of difference. I love my '77 C-20 454 pickup. Good luck with the Suburban.
norfla71
Explorer
Feb 20, 2016
blt2ski wrote:
IF you want a bit more low end, remove the 1st gears from a 4l60 and put them inthe 4l80. This will give you a 3.08 first vs a tall 2.48 currently in the trans. Off roaders do this a bunch. This will net you to an overall low of about 20-1 vs 16-1 including TC multiplier less slippage. That can get you a bit quicker off the line, and a steeper grade to start without the heat and slippage etc.

Marty

I was going to ask if the 4L60 parts were strong enough, but if they're abused by that crowd, I'm guessing it's strong enough for towing duties.

Parts started swapping out today. Pitman, idler and bracket.

I shouldn't have been surprised to see this, also.

Upgraded to Napa's finest

New parts installed and de-greased; super nasty with grease and PS fluid leak. Turpentine and heavy duty degreaser did the trick.

Waiting on pitman arm seal, then I button it up and take a ride.
blt2ski
Moderator
Feb 19, 2016
IF you want a bit more low end, remove the 1st gears from a 4l60 and put them inthe 4l80. This will give you a 3.08 first vs a tall 2.48 currently in the trans. Off roaders do this a bunch. This will net you to an overall low of about 20-1 vs 16-1 including TC multiplier less slippage. That can get you a bit quicker off the line, and a steeper grade to start without the heat and slippage etc.

Marty
BenK
Explorer
Feb 19, 2016
".....I keep thinking back to the GVO mechanical overdrive...."

That is in my thinking for the day I rebuild my 1996 7.4L Suburban

US Gear is no more and only Gear Vendors. Both has strengths and weaknesses

A GV would fit between my 4l80E and the Transfercase (am told and
will need more research)

With their advertised controller's ability to interface with the 4L80E
and split gears...I'd have 8 gears forward and two in reverse in full
automatic mode. Switch the GV off and it goes back to 4 gears

At around $3,800.00 for the GV, plus labor to install & dial in
time2roll
Nomad
Feb 19, 2016
I would run it as is until something breaks. Then rebuild or replace with same. Maybe some HD upgrades but I would skip on the big block dreams for this vehicle. If you really want a bigger motor you will find a like deal with it all ready to go.
JMHO