Newbie needs help with tow vehicle

RPreeb wrote:

Yak wrote:


The chains are stretching. Every one of the phaser jobs I've seen has had good documented maintenance

You still don't have any idea how hard they were run. Maintenance can only do so much. Give some people 365 horses and they have to drive it like they were related to Richard Petty. I don't plan on racing my 3.5 EB at Daytona or doing burnouts at the Winternationals.

Nice and easy!

Get the 4x4 if you can, even if you live in Florida and camp locally you can get stuck. Sugar sand patches make life tough in a 2 wheel drive. Also I use 4 sometimes when backing up in tight spots. It pushes the camper easier and prevents the back tires from slipping. I noticed this even in my back yard, get the 4x4 option if you can, just my opinion.

Rick - we like the x213 model too, but are leaning toward the 22BHM. There is also another model like the x213 with a larger dinette, but you have to climb over it to get into the bed....wife shot that model down.

I was not thinking about getting the 4x4, is there a big difference? Also, did you go with the 3.55 axle?

RPreeb wrote:

Yak wrote:


The chains are stretching. Every one of the phaser jobs I've seen has had good documented maintenance

You still don't have any idea how hard they were run. Maintenance can only do so much. Give some people 365 horses and they have to drive it like they were related to Richard Petty. I don't plan on racing my 3.5 EB at Daytona or doing burnouts at the Winternationals.

I agree with everything you said Ben. It is a tough balancing act. Make the chains to big and you start killing off mileage and throttle response; make them too small and you have a mess like Ford is in now.
I'm going belt drive on my supercharged engine next year. I think you know what happens to a supercharged engine full of boost and fuel when the valve timing gets out of wack. :E




Ford say's in their TSP that cam timing can be off as much as 5 degrees. 5 degrees on cam timing is a HUGE amount to have! 2 degrees is a lot!

RPeeb, you don't have to drive your truck like Richard Petty to wear out the first gen cam chains. Plain and simple, they were designed wrong or should I say weak (take your pick). Much like the first gen injectors on the LB7 Duramax or the first gen CP4 pumps on the Ford or GM diesels.

Cold starts is a WAY bigger problem on the chains than any spirited driving could ever do to them. When you have a chain that is a mile long most of it stays out of the oil. After sitting for a while the oil drains off of the chains wear points and is almost dry. Every time you start that engine the chain has to run around a while before it gets lubed. Until every link gets in the oil it is wearing.

That's why Fords little stunt of towing around a race track at WOT didn't mean much to people in the know. In fact, it was one of the easiest things they could have done to an engine. Ford knew this; but most people did not.

There is a reason Ford is rumored to come out with a completely new design Ecoboost in the near future. Must be a big one because designing a new engine from scratch is VERY expensive. Automotive companies aren't in the business of spending money needlessly.

Yak wrote:


The chains are stretching. Every one of the phaser jobs I've seen has had good documented maintenance

You still don't have any idea how hard they were run. Maintenance can only do so much. Give some people 365 horses and they have to drive it like they were related to Richard Petty. I don't plan on racing my 3.5 EB at Daytona or doing burnouts at the Winternationals.

FLtoAZ wrote:
I don't own a travel trailer (yet), but first things first....a truck to pull it. I'm looking at getting a smaller trailer, maybe something in the Jayco Jay Feather line (GVWR about 5-5.5k).

I live in Phoenix AZ, and the reason for the trailer is to get out of the desert and up into the mountains. Change in elevation would be 5-6k ft with inclines in the 6-7% range. I've never pulled a trailer up into the mountains, and I would like a truck that would not labor too much. It is also doubtful that I would get near the GVWR.

I'm looking at the 2016 F-150, and the sales person claimed the 2.7L V6 (3.55 rear axle) "would do the job", but I don't think he is right. I would rather not get a V8, so that leaves me with the 3.5L V6 Ecoboost w/ 3.55 axle (of course with the tow package).

Would I be unhappy with that truck pulling 5k lbs up hill?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I was basically in the same situation. We had decided on the X213 at 5500 lbs max. We bought a 2016 F-150 3.5L EB 4x4 with tow package. It pulls the TT without even breathing hard. I'm in Colorado, so we have a couple of mountains too.

Great video that makes sense of truck ratings and matching you truck to your RV.

Matching Your Truck to Your RV

Valve train and what drives them...comments below IMHO...

Gears are best, but they make more noise and tougher to design on OHC

Chains are easier to design on OHC, but they have an over shoot so
the tensioner has a double duty job. Too much tension and the lube
and drag becomes an delicate balancing design act

Synthetic belts were to save all of that, but they too have issues.
Advertised no to little stretch, lower mass/inertia, lighter, etc, etc...
Longevity issues and failure mode is catastrophic on an interference design

Turtle...betcha the Porsche 911's of old had a much longer chain...gave
up trying to help a buddy trying to save a few pennies...that thing
must have been over 10 feet long

That was also too small (narrow) and stretched and quickly if the
driver nailed it too often

Think these new engine designers has the chains just large enough
for their middle of the bell curve drivers. Those who nail it often
will stretch them...meaning that going from idle (~800 RPM) to over
3,000 in a couple of seconds places tremendous stress on that
chain...on these small sports car engines...that some times meant
to well over 5,000 RPMs in a couple seconds...

Yak wrote:

carringb wrote:
Cam phaser and timing chain issues are completely avoidable using quality engine oil, and changing it on time. The phasers are so simple, the only way they really fail is from the oil passages getting fouled up with gunk. Ditto timing chains. There's nothing magical about them, they just need proper lubrication. The only thing unique to the timing chain in the turbo motor, is the motor oil is exposed to more extreme temps, and that's why quality oil and good filters are essential.

The chains are stretching. Every one of the phaser jobs I've seen has had good documented maintenance

Yep, Ford used too small of a chain. I think they updated the chain in late 2014? There was a reason for that. The phasers use cheap metal and are subject to wear in several areas. Also turbocharged DI engines are hard on chains.

The chain in my 6.5 diesel was junk in 130K and it had only had a few links. I really don't like the idea of 5 miles chain in the baby Ram diesel either. It's just a bad idea to have a lot of chain running around in an engine. It's a worse idea to has 5 miles of chain running around in a DI engine that loads the chain from a HP pump and high valve spring pressure.

It's going to be interesting to see if Ford goes to a brand spanking new design on the EB. If so, that's very telling! :E

carringb wrote:
Cam phaser and timing chain issues are completely avoidable using quality engine oil, and changing it on time. The phasers are so simple, the only way they really fail is from the oil passages getting fouled up with gunk. Ditto timing chains. There's nothing magical about them, they just need proper lubrication. The only thing unique to the timing chain in the turbo motor, is the motor oil is exposed to more extreme temps, and that's why quality oil and good filters are essential.

The chains are stretching. Every one of the phaser jobs I've seen has had good documented maintenance