TLDR: 11,000-12,000lb bumper pull toy hauler. Need recommendations for a new truck to replace the ½ ton I currently have.Want the details? Read on.My situation is a little unique and I’ve been around for a while. I know how to use the search feature.October 2017, got rid of our 2006 diesel pusher. We bought it used and enjoyed it for a few years but it was too much for us. We missed a truck & trailer setup.December 2017, bought a 2018 Forest River WILDWOOD X-LITE T263BHX and a 2018 GMC Sierra 1500 with 6.2l and Max Trailer Tow package. This setup was perfect! Awesome daily driver and towed great.January 2018, went camping in the desert (our usual haunt) with my BIL who had just purchased a bumper-pull TH and a Can Am X3 side-by-side. We were hooked! Ugh, why didn’t this happen before we bought the truck and trailer?A few months ago we traded in the Forest River on a Grand Designs Momentum 25g and a Yamaha XYZ1000r. With 100 gallons of water and a 1600lb buggy we are probably pretty close to the GVWR of 11,500#’s.The GMC tows the trailer really well. There’s no shortage of power except on steep grades, and then if I rev it out it’ll stay at 60MPH. With the integrated brake controller set at about 5 – 5.5 (out of 10) it stops pretty well, too. The problems however are two fold. 1. I know I’m beyond the safety limits of the TV’s towing/load/axle capacity. 2. On the Interstate last month I was passing a big rig and my trailer went into a fishtail. Boy, was that scary. But, I knew to grab the trailer brakes and press the Go pedal. It straightened right out. Still, I didn’t like it.DW and I know we are going to end up with a 5th wheel garage model TH in a few years and we’d hoped the 1500 would get us through with our current trailer. But, that fishtail incident was a wake up call to take the hit and trade in the 1500 for a 3/4 or 1 ton sooner rather than later.I know a diesel is going to tow much better than a gasser. But, what I really want to know is if the engine choice will affect the non-power related towing characteristics of a ¾ or 1 ton crew cab standard bed truck compared to my short bed ½ ton GMC? Towing stability is more important to me than power.Also, I live close to work and my truck is my daily driver. We tow about once a month roughly 100 or so miles each way. In the Summer we tow into the mountains a few times and do one big trip into AZ, Nevada or Utah.What are your experiences? Sell me on a truck that will best suit my needs for the next few years.Thanks, Chris

I'm looking very hard at the 2020 GMC 2500HD Gas. Will be a 6.6L with 401 hp and 460 ft/lb. And a payload of just under 4000 lbs. But not available until June (ish) and I won't be looking until next year anyway. I tow now with a 2015 Sierra 1500 max trailer, 5.3L.If I were to go diesel, I would pass by the 2500 and go 3500. It's not so bad with the 2020's, but 2019 and older you'll find you don't have much more payload with a 2500 diesel vs. what you have now. I'm at 2015 for payload and most of the 2500 diesels I've seen are much more than 2300 lbs. I'm comparing CC numbers.I don't tow as much as you are (8,200 lbs wet) and my truck is good enough for now. I've had a diesel in the past (01 2500 Duramax) and also had a short commute (~3.5km) and would end up parking the diesel in the winter and by a POS for a few months as the diesel never got to operating temps. I'm not looking to get back into a diesel anytime soon for that reason. I just don't work it hard enough 90% of the time.Outside of power, the biggest difference in the gas vs diesel will be the tranny. Again, I'm only talking the GMC here, but the diesel has a 10 speed version of the Allison (not actually made by Allison anymore) and the gas will be a 6 speed. And you will get more engine braking with a diesel. The 6.6 gas will not have the power of your 6.2L. That is a nice motor. But it will be better than the current 6.0L in the HD trucks.

Do you have a antisway load distributing hitch? If not that may take care of the fishtailing.

Kind of inline with agesilaus question, but was the sway incident on your way home? Was the nose light because you had used most of the water? I'm assuming the toys were in the very back so they were lightening the nose that much more.It may have been a load distribution issue.

agesilaus wrote:Do you have a antisway load distributing hitch? If not that may take care of the fishtailing.I do. I'm using a Camco Eaz-Lift Trekker 1,200 Weight Distribution Hitch with Progressive Sway Control. I really like it. I just think I don't have enough truck to tow my trailer when the buggy is in it.

"P" class tires and "ride quality" narrow rim width is my guess...no matter how good the WD is...

Not the typical Gas vs Diesel, ½ ton vs HD question

27 Replies

Vapor_Trails
Explorer
Mar 14, 2019
valhalla360 wrote:

Of course, 11.5k is 3/4 ton territory in my mind but that won't solve a light hitch weight problem. If you are planning to 5th wheel, it might be worth it to bite the bullet now.

Agreed. A bigger truck is warranted.

It was a big hit buying the toy hauler so soon after the truck and travel trailer. We'll be keeping the TH for a while. I'll just about break even on the 1/2 ton, though. I'll look at is as a higher price than normal lease.

It seems my biggest issue is load distribution. I didn't think of that. I'm glad you guys brought it up.
Vapor_Trails
Explorer
Mar 14, 2019
Grit dog wrote:
Vapor, I’ll stay out of the weight cop discussions. But first I’d like to thank you for doing you part in supporting the US economy by way of “upgrading” your toys everytime the wind blows. Seriously. Without folks like you, there’d be far less good used items to buy for folks like me.
On to your question. Why wait? You don’t have a problem spending money, get the 5ver TH and a diesel dually now and be done with it. Unless you enjoy a steady diet of car and RV dealerships.
Otherwise get a srw diesel to pull your soon to be traded in camper, because why would you buy a gas tow rig that only has marginally more hp than a modded turbo sxs?
Apparently you've no problem commenting on my finances, though. In response I guess I'll say that I'm glad there are people like you who are happy to take over my sloppy seconds. Keeps resale up. Thanks!
Vapor_Trails
Explorer
Mar 14, 2019
goducks10 wrote:
My estimate is the 25G is overloaded.
1600 for ATV
180 for fuel
840 for water
=2620 lbs.
No food, clothes, riding gear, camp gear, etc.

Dry tongue weight is 1150. Add batteries, propane, some gear in the bedroom and closet, etc. 200+ lbs? = 1350 for tongue weight. Whats the receiver rating on the GM? also it looks like your 1200 bars are weak. 1500 bars would be better. Have you set up the truck by measuring the front? And have you scaled the truck and TT?

I'd be looking at a 3500/350 diesel at a minimum since you're looking to possibly go 5er TH in the future.

Yup. That's my conclusion as well. A previous post said that I might have to back the buggy in. That'll get the engine in front of the axles. The problem with that is that the driver door would be too closse to the wall to open. And there's no way I can crawl over the hump to get into the passenger seat. Conundrum.
Grit_dog
Navigator III
Mar 14, 2019
Vapor, I’ll stay out of the weight cop discussions. But first I’d like to thank you for doing you part in supporting the US economy by way of “upgrading” your toys everytime the wind blows. Seriously. Without folks like you, there’d be far less good used items to buy for folks like me.
On to your question. Why wait? You don’t have a problem spending money, get the 5ver TH and a diesel dually now and be done with it. Unless you enjoy a steady diet of car and RV dealerships.
Otherwise get a srw diesel to pull your soon to be traded in camper, because why would you buy a gas tow rig that only has marginally more hp than a modded turbo sxs?
goducks10
Explorer
Mar 14, 2019
My estimate is the 25G is overloaded.
1600 for ATV
180 for fuel
840 for water
=2620 lbs.
No food, clothes, riding gear, camp gear, etc.

Dry tongue weight is 1150. Add batteries, propane, some gear in the bedroom and closet, etc. 200+ lbs? = 1350 for tongue weight. Whats the receiver rating on the GM? also it looks like your 1200 bars are weak. 1500 bars would be better. Have you set up the truck by measuring the front? And have you scaled the truck and TT?

I'd be looking at a 3500/350 diesel at a minimum since you're looking to possibly go 5er TH in the future.
ksss
Explorer
Mar 14, 2019
If you can fix the loading problem, and your careful, I don't see why you couldn't get by with what you have already been doing. I also agree that the scare that occurred wouldn't be solved by a heavier pickup. Although I do think a heavier pickup would be better able to control the sway, once started it could flip an HD just as it could certainly could flip a LD. I believe they are close to taking orders for the new GM HD. You could see one by the end of the Summer, and update your RV after that, bonus is you could likely get a good end of season deal on a fifth wheel toyhauler. If you were good with a current product diesel HD, I would imagine that as the 2020 goes on sale you could get a great deal on a 2019 Duramax 3500HD. While they don't spec like the 2020 does, the engine will be the same (same power rating) and the current gen HD is absolutely capable. As good as the new gen HD will be, I am not sure that I would go with the new gen gas truck when I could get a current gen Dmax for the same money.
IdaD
Explorer
Mar 14, 2019
Greene728 wrote:
wilber1 wrote:
IdaD wrote:
You live in California so mountains will be a fact of life if you want to go anywhere. To me a diesel is worth it for the relaxed towing experience, and even when I'm just commuting in it or taking a road trip with the family I think all that torque makes for a nicer truck compared to a gas version. My truck is in my sig and I really like it, but if you're buying one of the new crop of diesels I'd recommend the Duramax to avoid the CP3 pump in the Ram and Ford - it's not worth asking for that trouble when you have a good alternative that avoids it altogether. When I bought my truck the Cummins was the only option without the CP3.

Don't you mean the CP4?

I noticed that too. I believe he just made a typo.

Yeah just a typo.
valhalla360
Navigator
Mar 13, 2019
bid_time wrote:
If your fishtail was due to not enough tongue weight, then even a class 8 ain't gonna fix your problem. In that case the only fix is more tongue weight.

That was my first thought...too much weight in the back and the hitch gets light. That would be my first check.

Of course, 11.5k is 3/4 ton territory in my mind but that won't solve a light hitch weight problem. If you are planning to 5th wheel, it might be worth it to bite the bullet now.
blt2ski
Moderator
Mar 13, 2019
The ONLY time I have had fish tail sway issues, is a trailer that is loaded incorrectly, IE usually too little hitch wt! As noted, a heavier suspension truck will not solve the issue. My 12K empty IHC dump flatbed does not stop my 8500 lb equipment trailer from swaying if I have no hitch weight! Yes, been there, done that!

With that said, ASSUMING you do go with a 5w trailer, now you need to sorta decide the size 5W you want, hitch/pin weight of said trailer, then get a truck that has the payload to handle said trailers pin weight! If you are in the mid teen lb relm, I would swag, most any of the current motors will handle that weight, yes with some speed loss, watch the fuel guage go down really fast too! Main issue in my mind, is payload for the truck. Drive train that will get you to where you want to go with speed on freeway you want. Along with, if you off road towing per say, will it have gears low enough to get you up steeper grades etc you may run into!
I personally like a few others, do not believe you currently truly need a new truck......at this moment in time!

marty
rhagfo
Explorer III
Mar 13, 2019
Vapor_Trails wrote:
TLDR: 11,000-12,000lb bumper pull toy hauler. Need recommendations for a new truck to replace the ½ ton I currently have.

Want the details? Read on.

My situation is a little unique and I’ve been around for a while. I know how to use the search feature.

October 2017, got rid of our 2006 diesel pusher. We bought it used and enjoyed it for a few years but it was too much for us. We missed a truck & trailer setup.

December 2017, bought a 2018 Forest River WILDWOOD X-LITE T263BHX and a 2018 GMC Sierra 1500 with 6.2l and Max Trailer Tow package. This setup was perfect! Awesome daily driver and towed great.

January 2018, went camping in the desert (our usual haunt) with my BIL who had just purchased a bumper-pull TH and a Can Am X3 side-by-side. We were hooked! Ugh, why didn’t this happen before we bought the truck and trailer?

A few months ago we traded in the Forest River on a Grand Designs Momentum 25g and a Yamaha XYZ1000r. With 100 gallons of water and a 1600lb buggy we are probably pretty close to the GVWR of 11,500#’s.

The GMC tows the trailer really well. There’s no shortage of power except on steep grades, and then if I rev it out it’ll stay at 60MPH. With the integrated brake controller set at about 5 – 5.5 (out of 10) it stops pretty well, too. The problems however are two fold. 1. I know I’m beyond the safety limits of the TV’s towing/load/axle capacity. 2. On the Interstate last month I was passing a big rig and my trailer went into a fishtail. Boy, was that scary. But, I knew to grab the trailer brakes and press the Go pedal. It straightened right out. Still, I didn’t like it.

DW and I know we are going to end up with a 5th wheel garage model TH in a few years and we’d hoped the 1500 would get us through with our current trailer. But, that fishtail incident was a wake up call to take the hit and trade in the 1500 for a 3/4 or 1 ton sooner rather than later.

I know a diesel is going to tow much better than a gasser. But, what I really want to know is if the engine choice will affect the non-power related towing characteristics of a ¾ or 1 ton crew cab standard bed truck compared to my short bed ½ ton GMC? Towing stability is more important to me than power.

Also, I live close to work and my truck is my daily driver. We tow about once a month roughly 100 or so miles each way. In the Summer we tow into the mountains a few times and do one big trip into AZ, Nevada or Utah.

What are your experiences? Sell me on a truck that will best suit my needs for the next few years.

Thanks,
Chris

Well if you are looking at a 5er TH, skip ANY 3/4 ton, go straight to a one ton, and if you are looking at stability, consider a DRW. If you are currently 11,500# on a receiver hitch TH, you might be thinking down the road with enough TV to cover a TH 5er, which can easily run 17,000# GVWR or more, I don't care if GM has a a 6.6 gas engine, you won't have a good time with 17,000#.