So much debate about the artificially low payload on the Ram 2500 diesels. That the low payload is only due to the 10,000 lb. GVWR. That the Ram 2500 diesel shares the same frame and drivetrain (differential, wheel bearings, etc.) as the Ram 3500 diesel (~11,700 lb. GVWR) which has approx. 1,700 lbs. more payload. The only difference between the two truck appears to be the rear suspension (Ram 2500's coil vs. the Ram 3500's leaf).These numbers and differences aside, has anyone actually measured the total AVAILABLE suspension travel, empty vs. loaded to maximum payload, on these two trucks? IMO, these simple measurements would settle this whole debate once and for all.For example, let's say, hypothetically, the Ram 2500 diesel has 5" of available rear suspension travel empty and only 2" remaining when loaded to maximum payload (~2200 lbs.). Again, hypothetically, let's say the Ram 3500 diesel has the same 5"/2" difference when loaded to its maximum payload of ~4000 lbs. If this was the case, then clearly there's more at play then some artificial GVWR.But, then again, if the Ram 2500 diesel was loaded to the Ram 3500's maximum payload of 4000 lbs. (using the above scenario) and still had 2" of remaining suspension travel then it would seem the 10,000 lb. GVWR, could very well be "artificial".Thoughts?

My first thought/question - Is suspension travel linear? Meaning just because each sags a given amount is it an indication of capability? I'm asking honestly as I don't know the answer.You might do some searching for member ib516 - He posted A LOT of videos of his 2500 Hemi and a friends 3500 with the same load being set in the bed (the pin of a HUGE 5th wheel). I seem to remember him measuring the sag on each but can't remember the outcome. He's since sold his truck but still stops by here every now and then so maybe he'll chime in.

The 2500 rides an inch higher at the receiver unloaded so it stands to reason it has an extra inch of travel. I don't know that that as any bearing on the payload rating, though. Bottom line on payload is the coils are a little softer than the leafs so at some point you'll get a bit more sag on them. ib516 posted some side by sides of his 2500 and a 3500 hooked to a very large fifth wheel and there was s little more squat on the coils but not a drastic difference. Of course Timbrens or airbags would eliminate the difference. I don't think there's any debate that the diesel payload rating is limited due to the 10k GVWR. It is. The 6.4 payload rating is about 1000 lbs higher and it has an identical rear suspension, and the only difference is the curb weight (the difference is almost entirely on the front axle).

I believe this is ib516, but using a different name on another forum. The 2500 dropped 2.7" while the 3500 dropped 2" loaded with the same 14,000 trailer with a hitch weight somewhere between 2,700-3,000 lbs.Ram 2500 Hemi vs 3500 SRW CumminsWhile the 2500 has a Hemi in this scenario, it has the same rear suspension as the diesel 2500. As mentioned, the only weight difference between the gas 2500 and the diesel 2500 is engine weight that is mostly over the front axle which so happens that the diesel 2500 has the same front suspension as the 3500 diesel. Then you can look at axle weight ratings.My Ram 2500 dieselFront GAWR- 6,000 lbsRear GAWR- 6,500 lbsRam 3500 dieselFront GAWR- 6,000 lbsRear GAWR- 7,000 lbsEverything on the trucks are the same besides the rear suspension which is calculated into the GAWR. Only a 500 lbs difference between the two in axle ratings yet there is a 1,700 lbs difference in payload. It doesn't take an engineering degree to see that the limiting factor is the max GVWR of 10,000 lbs in the class 2b that the 2500 is in.

IdaD, ShinerBock, see your point and appreciate the numbers.Let me simplify my point. How close is the axle to the frame (or rubber axle stop) when you load 4,000 lbs. of payload in a Ram 2500 diesel with a payload rating of 2,200 lbs? How close is the axle to the frame (or rubber axle stop) when you load 4,000 lbs. of payload in a Ram 3500 diesel which has payload rating of 4,000 lbs?If the "numbers" look good but the axle is riding on the frame, do you keep on driving?

This has long been discussed. My F250 was identical to a F350 except for shorter axle blocks and the badging. The Class 2b trucks are limited by the 10k lb GVWR and typically close or identical to the Class 3.The Ram 2500 cannot be optioned with the Aisin verses the 3500, but this is a marketing decision rather than technical.GM 2500 trucks were offered in short bed configurations that were not available in the 3500, yet the rest of the truck is identical.

Payload: Ram 2500 Diesel vs. Ram 3500 Diesel | Good Sam Community

Bedlam
Moderator
Mar 06, 2016
biofumes wrote:
It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

The cummins forum has a lot of specs and specifics. I have the 4500, and no it does not have the same frame as a 3500, and all the suspension parts are rated for the payload and towing specs. Although, the engine is a 6.7 cummins, even the turbo is another size altogether. Hope that helps.

The same frame is now used between the 2500 and 3500 (there was one or two to years where the 2500 frame was lagging behind the 3500). Your 4500 frame is like my 5500.

BTW: Your Cumins only has 325 hp and 750 lb-ft in your chassis cab. The engine and transmission is identical to the 3500 but is tuned for longer duty cycle at full output with the chassis cab verses pickup.
spoon059
Explorer II
Mar 06, 2016
norcalhawk wrote:
Thanks everybody....things are getting clearer all the time. Less than $100 gets me into a 3500 over the 2500...seems like a no brainer, yes!

In your case, I don't see a difference. Like someone else said, you will always have a load in the back, so the ride difference between the coils and leafs will be minimal. Registration might be an issue because of the higher GVWR. Also some communities have parking regulations with 10K GVWR being the cutoff.

Still, all things considered when buying new, hard to turn down an additional thousand lbs of payload for only a couple dollars more...
spoon059
Explorer II
Mar 06, 2016
biofumes wrote:
It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

Same frame. Only physical difference between a 2500 and SRW 3500 is the rear suspension and badging on the door.
biofumes
Explorer
Mar 06, 2016
It's always been my understanding , that a 3/4 ton vs a one ton truck does not have the same frame, the frame itself should be one of the biggest differences between the two.

The cummins forum has a lot of specs and specifics. I have the 4500, and no it does not have the same frame as a 3500, and all the suspension parts are rated for the payload and towing specs. Although, the engine is a 6.7 cummins, even the turbo is another size altogether. Hope that helps.
norcalhawk
Explorer
Mar 05, 2016
Turtle n peeps,

Already checked. All trucks are considered commercial in California...go figure! Trucks 1500, 2500 or 3500...etc., etc., commercial registration comes into play when a it is open in back or with a (Leer type) shell (they are starting to enforce the truck/shell combo now. But, if you carry a Camper secured to your truck capable of "Human Habitation", as California DMV states, a camper that includes: cab over style, cabinets, kitchen units, lights, bath/toilet, you may register it as a RV. DMV: Reg256A You just go to DMV with your truck and camper, they look at it, give their blessing and register your unit as an RV. Hope its as simple as they say...! AAA is even simpler, so I'm told.
Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Mar 05, 2016
norcalhawk wrote:
Thanks everybody....things are getting clearer all the time. Less than $100 gets me a 3500...seems like a no brainer, yes!

You might want to check with the DMV on reg costs if you live in the Republic of Kalifornia like I do. :B They can really add up. Years ago my buddies F450 was $1,400/ year for that little plastic sticker. :E
norcalhawk
Explorer
Mar 05, 2016
Thanks everybody....things are getting clearer all the time. Less than $100 gets me into a 3500 over the 2500...seems like a no brainer, yes!
Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Mar 05, 2016
FishOnOne wrote:
norcalhawk wrote:
I own a FWCamper,(hawk fully loaded is ~2300#) and I plan to upgraded from my payload inferior '02 Tundra to a '16 Ram 3/4 ton or 1 ton. I want some cushioning, more, maybe much more payload than I need. SAFTY! I believe I will be more than OK with either (Ram 2500 6.4L CC or the 3500 6.4L CC.) I don't feel I need a diesel. I leave my camper on 24/7. 15,000 mi annually, road trip 1/month, more in the summer. Highway driving, backcountry dirt/USFS roads, some 4x4 roads. Camping along the way. Always on and ready to go...

So, my question/dilemma: Coil or leaf? Concerned about the longevity of the springs. All things being equal, will the 2500 coils start to sag/weaken before the 3500 leafs? Reliability of the two springs?

...2500 ~3000 payload or the 3500 ~3900 payload)

Anything else I should know...?? All comments/opinions welcomed.
Thank you in advance.

I would hands down go with the leaf springs. The problem with the coil suspension is the springs are mounted inward from the frame requiring using a sway bar to supplement and the leafs are mounted outwards of the frame giving the truck much better stability.

There's a reason the 3500 stayed with leaf springs.

^^^ This.
Fish is on it.

Here's my experience with trucks and race cars. Now be advised that the differences are VERY, VERY small and I'm splitting hairs. The leaf give you more lateral stability than the coil. There is a lot of rubber mounted **** on a coil system. Control arms, panhard bars, sway bars............all of that junk adds up to a jiggly ride. The only thing on a leaf truck is the leaf bushings. Simple and almost full proof. On the other hand there is a lot of stuff to wear out and rubber to rot on a coil truck.

In any event the differences are very small. Get what you want. My bet is you will be happy with either.
Me_Again
Explorer III
Mar 05, 2016
FishOnOne wrote:

I would hands down go with the leaf springs. The problem with the coil suspension is the springs are mounted inward from the frame requiring using a sway bar to supplement and the leafs are mounted outwards of the frame giving the truck much better stability.

There's a reason the 3500 stayed with leaf springs.

Give that man a cigar! Chris
FishOnOne
Nomad
Mar 05, 2016
norcalhawk wrote:
I own a FWCamper,(hawk fully loaded is ~2300#) and I plan to upgraded from my payload inferior '02 Tundra to a '16 Ram 3/4 ton or 1 ton. I want some cushioning, more, maybe much more payload than I need. SAFTY! I believe I will be more than OK with either (Ram 2500 6.4L CC or the 3500 6.4L CC.) I don't feel I need a diesel. I leave my camper on 24/7. 15,000 mi annually, road trip 1/month, more in the summer. Highway driving, backcountry dirt/USFS roads, some 4x4 roads. Camping along the way. Always on and ready to go...

So, my question/dilemma: Coil or leaf? Concerned about the longevity of the springs. All things being equal, will the 2500 coils start to sag/weaken before the 3500 leafs? Reliability of the two springs?

...2500 ~3000 payload or the 3500 ~3900 payload)

Anything else I should know...?? All comments/opinions welcomed.
Thank you in advance.

I would hands down go with the leaf springs. The problem with the coil suspension is the springs are mounted inward from the frame requiring using a sway bar to supplement and the leafs are mounted outwards of the frame giving the truck much better stability.

There's a reason the 3500 stayed with leaf springs.