Powering AC unit built into travel trailer with solar?

Gdetrailer wrote:

Lantley wrote:
While we can certainly debate the size of a typical RV.
Once installed the system is no more massive than my built in Onan 5500 lp.
While most bumper pull RV's do not have built in gensets. There are plenty of RV's that do have built in gensets that have the space to accomodate solar capable A/C.

Man, I got to get some of the stuff you are on..

The solar panels alone to support an A/C unit would require not just the roof, but the sides and more of the average RV and still fall short..

Then the battery capacity even with the best Lithium technology would take several times the space of your Onan plus your entire propane tank and would still fall short.

Your solar not only must be sufficient size to harvest for the A/C but also charge the batteries plus provide support for other RV items.

On the very best clear day at the equator you might get a whopping max solar charging peak of 5 hrs, you get severely less charging. That means your batteries must be able to support not only the normal RV load for nearly 19 hrs but the A/C unit.

Can it be done?

Sure, need space, time and money..

Sticks and bricks with a few acres of land for solar panels and a basement filled with batteries it definitely can be done..

RVs? Not so much, not now and not in the very near future..

Batteries have been around since the 1800's, Lithium technology batteries are pretty new around the late 1990s.. It has taken nearly 200 yrs just to get to the point we are, but for RVs and A/C not there yet.

For an hr or so shot of A/C it could be done for a RV, with the technology we have.. But 24/7 not practical money wise.

If you want bragging rights and cool points with the techno nerds you would win that prize, but once the coolness fades and reality of maintaining such a expensive system the costs will drive you into the poor house.

Batteries are a weak spot, they are a consumable item, they lose capacity with each cycle, they lose capacity if you let them sit, they have a finite life.. So far with all of the lithium based devices I have dealt with over the yrs, the average lithium battery life span is 3-4 yrs.. The marketing folks will tell you otherwise, they have to if they wish to keep their income..

I have dealt with Lithium battery powered portable devices in an 24/7/365 industrial setting, the batteries were the weakest link, they got cycled three times a day.. We replaced them like candy, we bought replacement batteries by the thousands every quarter and we only had 15,000 active devices.. After just 5 yrs, company pulled the plug on the product and sunsetted it forever.

We are not talking an industrial setting or 15K active devices.
What does that have to do with RV's? And you think I'm on some stuff...LOL
You are correct you would have to cover the roof in panels.
But believe or not solar enthusiast are covering their roof in panels.
The roof space is available. The genset compartment of my RV could hold 10-12 batteries easily..
I'm not trying to run A/C 24/7 on batteries. I don't need to.
I don't run my A/C with my Onan 24/7.
Running it overnight would be my goal and recharge during the day.
Worst case one would have a 2000 watt genset available for cloudy days...LOL.
I undesrstand solar A/C is not perfected, but its not a pipe dream either.
Back in 2012 when I factory ordered my genset solar A/C was a pipe dream. However in 2022 it is a viable option.
Give it 10 more years and it will likely be a OEM factory available option.
The one thing I can be sure of is the technology won't stand still.
I've seen enough game changing technology in my lifetime, especilally the last 20 years. That solar powered RV A/C is not that mind boggling at this point.

Lantley wrote:
While we can certainly debate the size of a typical RV.
Once installed the system is no more massive than my built in Onan 5500 lp.
While most bumper pull RV's do not have built in gensets. There are plenty of RV's that do have built in gensets that have the space to accomodate solar capable A/C.

Man, I got to get some of the stuff you are on..

The solar panels alone to support an A/C unit would require not just the roof, but the sides and more of the average RV and still fall short..

Then the battery capacity even with the best Lithium technology would take several times the space of your Onan plus your entire propane tank and would still fall short.

Your solar not only must be sufficient size to harvest for the A/C but also charge the batteries plus provide support for other RV items.

On the very best clear day at the equator you might get a whopping max solar charging peak of 5 hrs, you get severely less charging. That means your batteries must be able to support not only the normal RV load for nearly 19 hrs but the A/C unit.

Can it be done?

Sure, need space, time and money..

Sticks and bricks with a few acres of land for solar panels and a basement filled with batteries it definitely can be done..

RVs? Not so much, not now and not in the very near future..

Batteries have been around since the 1800's, Lithium technology batteries are pretty new around the late 1990s.. It has taken nearly 200 yrs just to get to the point we are, but for RVs and A/C not there yet.

For an hr or so shot of A/C it could be done for a RV, with the technology we have.. But 24/7 not practical money wise.

If you want bragging rights and cool points with the techno nerds you would win that prize, but once the coolness fades and reality of maintaining such a expensive system the costs will drive you into the poor house.

Batteries are a weak spot, they are a consumable item, they lose capacity with each cycle, they lose capacity if you let them sit, they have a finite life.. So far with all of the lithium based devices I have dealt with over the yrs, the average lithium battery life span is 3-4 yrs.. The marketing folks will tell you otherwise, they have to if they wish to keep their income..

I have dealt with Lithium battery powered portable devices in an 24/7/365 industrial setting, the batteries were the weakest link, they got cycled three times a day.. We replaced them like candy, we bought replacement batteries by the thousands every quarter and we only had 15,000 active devices.. After just 5 yrs, company pulled the plug on the product and sunsetted it forever.

While we can certainly debate the size of a typical RV.
Once installed the system is no more massive than my built in Onan 5500 lp.
While most bumper pull RV's do not have built in gensets. There are plenty of RV's that do have built in gensets that have the space to accomodate solar capable A/C.

Lantley wrote:
I agree several thousand dollars just to be noiseless is not worth it to most.
The difference is 10 years ago a quiet inverter genset was as quiet as you could be. There was no silent solar option at any cost.
Ten years ago we used to often debate/discuss if it were worthwhile to buy and expensive inverter genset just to keep the noise down. You don't read those types of threads any more. For the most part this forum agrees one should use a quiet inverter genset for camping vs. and open frame genset.
Solar packages have raised the bar.
I have a built in genset and I am merely a convenience user. I may overnight off the grid while traveling. I may meet friends at a local Marina and camp on the parking lot. I may camp on friends remote land. All of those adventures only last a day or 2. +My built Onan will keep me powered for a day or 2.
But that built in was a bit expensive. While I have no regrets on buying the Onan If I were buying today I would seriously consider a A/C capable solar for the same money.
Yes its pricey but so is a built in genset. A solar powered A/C package would allow me to maintain my current camping style. But it would also open up oportunity to escape genset rules and camp on non electric sites...and still have electric without producing any noise to disturb other around me.
Assateaque state park has limited electric sites and genset rules. I could avoid those rules and have electric on some of the non electric sites without distubing the neighbors.
It will take years but solar A/C will become commonplace in the RV world.
It's just a natural fit

But it's still not practical.

Sure if you only want to cool the RV down at a lunch stop before getting to a campground with shore power, it works but if you are actually in hot weather where you need air/con, it's not just several thousand dollars but a massive system that is difficult to fit in a typical RV.

I agree several thousand dollars just to be noiseless is not worth it to most.
The difference is 10 years ago a quiet inverter genset was as quiet as you could be. There was no silent solar option at any cost.
Ten years ago we used to often debate/discuss if it were worthwhile to buy and expensive inverter genset just to keep the noise down. You don't read those types of threads any more. For the most part this forum agrees one should use a quiet inverter genset for camping vs. and open frame genset.
Solar packages have raised the bar.
I have a built in genset and I am merely a convenience user. I may overnight off the grid while traveling. I may meet friends at a local Marina and camp on the parking lot. I may camp on friends remote land. All of those adventures only last a day or 2. +My built Onan will keep me powered for a day or 2.
But that built in was a bit expensive. While I have no regrets on buying the Onan If I were buying today I would seriously consider a A/C capable solar for the same money.
Yes its pricey but so is a built in genset. A solar powered A/C package would allow me to maintain my current camping style. But it would also open up oportunity to escape genset rules and camp on non electric sites...and still have electric without producing any noise to disturb other around me.
Assateaque state park has limited electric sites and genset rules. I could avoid those rules and have electric on some of the non electric sites without distubing the neighbors.
It will take years but solar A/C will become commonplace in the RV world.
It's just a natural fit

spoon059 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
The idea of spending thousands and thousands of Dollars on solar and battery in order to run A/C to avoid paying $20-$30 per night unless you are full timing is funny to say the least..

For my purposes, I want to be able to boondock out in the wilderness. The pictures you see in RV magazines of a camper out in the middle of nowhere, on the bank of a river... I'd like to be able to do that a couple of times when I take the family on our cross country trip. But I'm a finely tuned machine, much like a Lamborghini, and require certain things... like air conditioning when I'm sleeping!

But I agree, the several thousand dollar cost of being able to do that AND be essentially noiseless just isn't worth it in my mind. I am generally quite aware of people around me and I try my best not to do things that may annoy them. I'd really like an affordable way to have some battery bank to run the AC overnight. If I can't do it any way other than a 2200 watt Honda generator, then I might have to make a little more noise than potential neighbors might want to hear.

Thankfully for them, I'll only be there 1 or 2 nights before I move on!

I can picture that kind of camping spot, but unfortunately in a practical sense using a gen is the lesser of the evils for heavy loads like A/C.

From what I gathered from the one 48V DC A/C unit (which boasts a higher efficiency than standard A/C units), they recommended 2,500W (10 250W panels) worth of solar and that was just to cover the A/C unit. You would still need additional wattage to cover your camping needs. That isn't including batteries, controller and DC A/C cost.. Even if you managed to get the panels for a $1 per Watt that is $2,500-$3,000 plus everything else.. A very expensive proposition just to say you can run a A/C from batteries. I think the average RV owner will have a difficult time swallowing that bitter pill of reality..

Batteries and solar has improved, but still not there for running heavy loads cost and space wise for the limited space a RV offers.

But to some, it seems like boasting and bragging rights that they do not need a generator to run A/C takes precedence and don't mind spending that kind of money. Sounds cool but not real practical if you don't want to go broke on a RV..

Gdetrailer wrote:
The idea of spending thousands and thousands of Dollars on solar and battery in order to run A/C to avoid paying $20-$30 per night unless you are full timing is funny to say the least..

For my purposes, I want to be able to boondock out in the wilderness. The pictures you see in RV magazines of a camper out in the middle of nowhere, on the bank of a river... I'd like to be able to do that a couple of times when I take the family on our cross country trip. But I'm a finely tuned machine, much like a Lamborghini, and require certain things... like air conditioning when I'm sleeping!

But I agree, the several thousand dollar cost of being able to do that AND be essentially noiseless just isn't worth it in my mind. I am generally quite aware of people around me and I try my best not to do things that may annoy them. I'd really like an affordable way to have some battery bank to run the AC overnight. If I can't do it any way other than a 2200 watt Honda generator, then I might have to make a little more noise than potential neighbors might want to hear.

Thankfully for them, I'll only be there 1 or 2 nights before I move on!

Skibane wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Common misunderstanding as generator companies don't use standardized testing.

Ideally, they should be providing a graph showing dB from 0w to max wattage. Then you can compare across generators at your expected wattage draw.

Of course, I tested running the air/con with the Yamaha 2400 and the Champion 4500 side by side (well one after the other) running the air/con. The Champion was noticeably quieter.

Maybe the new Hondas really are quieter but the ones I've seen running air/con are plenty noisy. Shut off the air/con and sure they are really quiet but that's not why you get a generator.

Since Champion goes out of their way to avoid mentioning what percent of full power output they use when specifying their noise levels, it's a pretty safe bet that they're using the one that makes their products appear the quietest - i.e., with little or no load present.

Consequently, you could expect them to be even noisier at higher power output.

That's why I indicated, I did side by side testing and it was quieter than the Yamaha.

valhalla360 wrote:
Common misunderstanding as generator companies don't use standardized testing.

Ideally, they should be providing a graph showing dB from 0w to max wattage. Then you can compare across generators at your expected wattage draw.

Of course, I tested running the air/con with the Yamaha 2400 and the Champion 4500 side by side (well one after the other) running the air/con. The Champion was noticeably quieter.

Maybe the new Hondas really are quieter but the ones I've seen running air/con are plenty noisy. Shut off the air/con and sure they are really quiet but that's not why you get a generator.

Since Champion goes out of their way to avoid mentioning what percent of full power output they use when specifying their noise levels, it's a pretty safe bet that they're using the one that makes their products appear the quietest - i.e., with little or no load present.

Consequently, you could expect them to be even noisier at higher power output.

pianotuna wrote:
I dislike generators. I head for an inexpensive or free location. I use the autoformer to give me adequate voltage.

And I would agree, myself if I NEED to run A/C for a long period of time then I camp in places that offer commercial shore power.

We typically "overnight" without shore power, have seen temps in the upper 80's over night or temps in the low 50's over night. If it is hot when we stop, we start the gen in the back of my truck and let the A/Cs cool the trailer off for a half hr.. Once cooled down some we just open the windows and let the natural air breezes keep us comfortable overnight.

Unless you are camping in the middle of a desert a lot of the times just running the A/C for a short time from a gen is all it takes..

But, I would rather spend a few dimes at a campground with electric if I am going to encounter hot muggy upper 80'Fs to low 100'Fs temps..

The idea of spending thousands and thousands of Dollars on solar and battery in order to run A/C to avoid paying $20-$30 per night unless you are full timing is funny to say the least..

On edit..

I also have a hate for batteries, batteries are a "one way street", they are a "consumable" item. They lose usable capacity each and every cycle. They lose capacity just sitting not being used. They are expensive to buy, they are expensive to replace.

Lithium technology batteries are no exception to the rules above.

Lithium technologies are relatively new, they are not really time tested compared to other older battery technologies and are often way over hyped on their life span and life cycles. BMS systems are critical to have with Lithium technologies and that adds a new layer of break down failures that render the battery inoperable even if the battery is still good.

On the other hand, gas generators are known and proven, does not lose capacity either from being used or just sitting around.. All you have to do is simply refill the fuel tank and good to go..