Forum Discussion
spoon059 wrote:
Slowmover wrote:
I've averaged 21-mpg FOR ALL MILES in my (now 200k mile) 2004 DODGE CTD. CIty and country, solo, and am just above 15-mpg towing. At $4/gl diesel, that's 15 cents per mile, solo, and 25-cpm, towing. I don't fall below 24-mpg highway solo (loaded or empty, traffic or no traffic, rain, major metro areas, etc. Have seen 27-mpg numerous times) and am closer to 16-mpg with a TT that has yet to have all bugs worked out in re alignment, etc. I bring this up as it may be a similar set of numbers for the new truck.
What is your towing cost per mile?
Technically your towing cost per mile includes every piece of the cost to tow. That includes the original cost of the vehicle, all maintenance, fuel, tires, etc etc.
You are making reference to your fuel cost per mile. Those are 2 radically different numbers.
Obviously you get better mileage in your truck, but the upfront cost and maintenance costs are much larger than a gas engine that gets worse economy. Chances are that at the 200K mile mark you might have surpassed the gas engine with total towing cost, because the gas engine owner probably sold the truck and bought a new one. I've never owned a diesel and I know they run a long time, but I've owned a couple trucks and around 100,000 miles things besides the engine start showing wear and need to be replaced. Steering components, exhaust, interior wear, suspension items, brake lines, etc etc. The nickles and dimes add up. Perhaps it is slightly cheaper to hold on to that truck with 200K miles and replace all those items, but I would rather sell the truck around 90K miles and start over new. New technology, higher power engine, new interior, new suspension, new exhuast, etc etc.
Not debating which method is better, just pointing out that relatively few "original owners" own the truck long enough to see the total cost per mile drop down that low.
I agree, in main. But towing costs are significant. And comparisons about TVs might be a little more realistic based on towing mpg alone. For purposes of vacationing it is a valid means of comparing tow vehicles . . thus the points about an aerodynamic TT (as HP demand is reduced, thus fuel burn). Actual truck spec, climate and terrain plus driver skill will matter more in re solo miles as those are likely to be the main use.
Making a fuel economical rig -- relative to the usual gas pickup and square box TT -- is worth exploring.
My folks pulled the 28' version of my 35' with a V8-454 3/4T Suburban. 7-8/mpg at 55-mph, average. Contrast that to my 15-mpg with a Cummins-powered Dodge 3/4T at 58-mph, average with a longer, but not much heavier version of the same TT.
And those who trade every five years or so oughtn't bother debating fuel economy as depreciation is the real killer (combined with other costs of ownership and operation).
The cost of fuel is high. But trading TV and TT every few years is far more expensive. My folks mpg was abysmal, but they kept that TT 27-years and had but two tow vehicles over the same time. That kept the total cpm low, even though the fuel cpm was high.
But we're never going to see 95-cent/gl fuel again. $4/gl is a good number to start from. So, towing mpg is a worthwhile comparison.
(And, repairs on mine have been $350 total at 200k/ten years. As depreciation has virtually stopped -- this is a high demand truck -- spending on it to stay ahead of the repair curve will be easy to do).
As before, a well=spec'd DODGE 1/2T diesel paired with a nice aero TT could be the ticket for the long term owner, solo and vacationing. Or, full-timing. More so than any 1T spec monster.
Worrying over payload is a function of carrying too much stuff, not related to any 1/2T truck as a TV candidate. It's a non-issue for this kind of discussion.- http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html
For more info on the engine itself. It's the same engine that I had in a 2004 Grand Cherokee Kevin O. wrote:
For people using a truck as a daily driver and towing a 6-9000lb travel trailer during the summer months the F150HD the perfect choice. when not towing you will average 19-20+ mpg, Your F250 with 6.2L cant come close to those mpg #'s...
Excellent point. That can be a problem for some drivers. Hence the smile face in my comment. luckly I don't put many miles on my truck when not camping. About 60 miles per week to and from work, Wifes car for everything else.
Oh...and we camp year round down south. :)BeerCan wrote:
I will tell you that I miss my F150 quite a bit. It rode so much better that this beast I have now (f350) but that's the price you pay for payload.
I still think RAM will sell a bunch of these, especially if the tuners get behind the VM Motori like Banks is.
That's why I went with a half-ton, good ride, along with other things. Also, my acquisition cost on my 2011 Silverado Crew Cab was $26,000,00 out the door. And it's an LT-not a "stripper". It has dual climate control, power driver's seat, chrome pkg., tow pkg., etc. I And if your towing between 5,000 and 8,000 pounds they are a low cost way to go as far as trucks are concerned.- I will tell you that I miss my F150 quite a bit. It rode so much better that this beast I have now (f350) but that's the price you pay for payload.
I still think RAM will sell a bunch of these, especially if the tuners get behind the VM Motori like Banks is. - If your main need for the truck is to tow (or carry), then obviously F250 is the better choice. But if your main need is a daily driving without a tow, then IMO, F150HD is a much better choice. Better ride and better fuel consumption. Even if these two models were priced the same, I would still choose them based on these criteria.
Ram 1500 Diesel - I sort of wanted this model to be the Ram version of F150HD with EcoBoost. Looks like this is not the case. Mike Up wrote:
Kevin O. wrote:
Learjet wrote:
For people using a truck as a daily driver and towing a 6-9000lb travel trailer during the summer months the F150HD the perfect choice. when not towing you will average 19-20+ mpg, Your F250 with 6.2L cant come close to those mpg #'s...itguy08 wrote:
Add the HD Payload to the F150 and it goes up to around 2,000 lbs.
IF you are going go with the F150HD, just get the F250 for @ the same price. That is what I did, and I know I made the right choice :)
While not fuel efficient, a F250 is much more truck than a F150HD. I recently was surprised and very disappointed to find that a Crew Cab 4WD HD truck only has a 4050 lbs front axle rating while the rear is a respectable 4800 lbs rating. The front axle will be overload fairly easy by most 5th wheels. Heavy hitch weights likely won't affect it to much as the hitch receiver rating is low at either 1050 lbs or 1150 lbs (Max Tow) and obviously the reason why no higher rating was ever given.
I thought the the front axle on a HD truck was suppose to be no lower than 4400 lbs but that was obviously wrong.
I just went looking at F250 and they aren't as cheap as a Max Tow HD truck because rebates are lower plus they are now about $2K more with equivalent options. I would still purchase a 6.2L F250 any day over a 1/2 HD truck. Dodge dealers years ago told me that Dodge didn't offer a HD truck because the price difference wasn't that great and the 2500 would be much more truck. I have to agree.
The bad part about getting a HD F150 is that the Chrome package is not available and the only wheel size is 17". You also are stuck with the tiny LT245/17 tires. The other thing is that you also can't get a locking axle and must get the limit slip axle.
While not that big of a deal for some, you don't have the limitations on a F250. You can get any option that a F150 has and the price is not much more.
I like having the locking rear axle and larger tires since I've been in some pretty muddy places where I needed 4WD and all the traction I could get. Put your trailer on the hitch, and those options may save you from having to have a John Deere pull you out. ;)
I'm sure the same can be said about a RAM 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi.
If I didn't commute as much, I'd be driving a F250 6.2L or a Ram 2500 5.7L.
Some of us don't like the ride of the heavier trucks.Kevin O. wrote:
Learjet wrote:
For people using a truck as a daily driver and towing a 6-9000lb travel trailer during the summer months the F150HD the perfect choice. when not towing you will average 19-20+ mpg, Your F250 with 6.2L cant come close to those mpg #'s...itguy08 wrote:
Add the HD Payload to the F150 and it goes up to around 2,000 lbs.
IF you are going go with the F150HD, just get the F250 for @ the same price. That is what I did, and I know I made the right choice :)
While not fuel efficient, a F250 is much more truck than a F150HD. I recently was surprised and very disappointed to find that a Crew Cab 4WD HD truck only has a 4050 lbs front axle rating while the rear is a respectable 4800 lbs rating. The front axle will be overload fairly easy by most 5th wheels. Heavy hitch weights likely won't affect it to much as the hitch receiver rating is low at either 1050 lbs or 1150 lbs (Max Tow) and obviously the reason why no higher rating was ever given.
I thought the the front axle on a HD truck was suppose to be no lower than 4400 lbs but that was obviously wrong.
I just went looking at F250 and they aren't as cheap as a Max Tow HD truck because rebates are lower plus they are now about $2K more with equivalent options. I would still purchase a 6.2L F250 any day over a 1/2 HD truck. Dodge dealers years ago told me that Dodge didn't offer a HD truck because the price difference wasn't that great and the 2500 would be much more truck. I have to agree.
The bad part about getting a HD F150 is that the Chrome package is not available and the only wheel size is 17". You also are stuck with the tiny LT245/17 tires. The other thing is that you also can't get a locking axle and must get the limit slip axle.
While not that big of a deal for some, you don't have the limitations on a F250. You can get any option that a F150 has and the price is not much more.
I like having the locking rear axle and larger tires since I've been in some pretty muddy places where I needed 4WD and all the traction I could get. Put your trailer on the hitch, and those options may save you from having to have a John Deere pull you out. ;)
I'm sure the same can be said about a RAM 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi.
If I didn't commute as much, I'd be driving a F250 6.2L or a Ram 2500 5.7L.Kevin O. wrote:
Not to mention city driving, fitting into downtown parking decks, etc...Learjet wrote:
For people using a truck as a daily driver and towing a 6-9000lb travel trailer during the summer months the F150HD the perfect choice. when not towing you will average 19-20+ mpg, Your F250 with 6.2L cant come close to those mpg #'s...itguy08 wrote:
Add the HD Payload to the F150 and it goes up to around 2,000 lbs.
IF you are going go with the F150HD, just get the F250 for @ the same price. That is what I did, and I know I made the right choice :)
